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Featured John Bunyan on the Sovereign Choice of God

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MennoSota, Mar 4, 2017.

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  1. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    You are super manipulative.
     
    #141 JonShaff, Apr 13, 2017
  2. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Just be honest instead of speaking falsehood only to tell me you were kidding. Such behavior is dissapointing from you. Why do you speak with forked tongue?

    Your behavior is like atheists I talk with.
     
    #142 MennoSota, Apr 13, 2017
  3. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    What are you talking about?

    I believe what Paul Says about

    Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    However, I do not believe what Calvin says about it.
     
    #143 JonShaff, Apr 13, 2017
  4. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    That's a sensible move. Best thing to do is to bow out. Calvinists will never relent. They gang up on the non-Cal's. They want us to assimilate.

    They're smarter than we are. Whereas we are blind, poorly educated, and unable to understand God's word they have special insight into God's word. They have various confessions like the Westminster Confession of Faith and the London Confession of Faith, various commentaries and superstar personalities like John Piper, John MacArthur, and James White. All we have is the Holy Spirit, the Bible, and common sense.
     
    #144 InTheLight, Apr 13, 2017
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  5. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Menno bro, your own communication skills could use a little work.

    My opinion of course.

    HankD
     
    #145 HankD, Apr 13, 2017
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  6. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Screen Shot 2017-04-13 at 10.16.13 PM.png

    I will remind everyone how @MennoSota was first addressed about what he has been nagging me with for 2 days...

    Dead men can hear the voice of God

    So @MennoSota, I'm not going to ask you a manipulative question about your humility and ask you to apologize. I'm just going to tell you I love you.
     
    #146 JonShaff, Apr 13, 2017
  7. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Not trying to win a popularity contest, Hank.
    People need to be honest and not manipulative, especially when we address God's word.
    A person doesn't know what they don't know, which is fine. But a person who doesn't know what they don't know, but imagines they do is not fine. Those who purposely obfuscate are wrong and should not be tolerated.
     
    #147 MennoSota, Apr 13, 2017
  8. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    We are spiritually dead in our trespasses in sins. Spiritually dead people are enemies of God. Spiritually dead people cannot please God. Spiritually dead people are slaves to sin. Spiritually dead people who die in their spiritually dead condition live eternally separated from God. Spiritually dead people, however, can hear the voice of God and do not need to become "Spiritually alive" before they hear God. PERIOD
     
    #148 JonShaff, Apr 13, 2017
  9. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 3 AM Pacific.
     
    #149 Squire Robertsson, Apr 13, 2017
  10. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Another bump for @MennoSota
    Who never answered my PM, BTW
     
    #150 JonShaff, Apr 13, 2017
  11. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Except the Bible does not teach that...PERIOD.
    You are working hard to rationalize your concept with the Bible and you reject God's word because it doesn't make sense to you. You just need to accept what God says...even if you cannot reconcile your personal opinions. Stop trying to make God's word fit your paradigm.
     
    #151 MennoSota, Apr 13, 2017
  12. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Let me make this very plain to you and to all who read this. If calvinism produces Christians like you then I don't want your theology. If a theology produces ungodly Character then do I really need to debate it? The Pharisees knew the Scriptures, quoted the Scriptures, bound them to their head and heart (literally). But did not let the Scriptures Get into their Heart. They Had no Love for God nor any love for Others. They were fruitless. And let me tell you something about internet chatting. You may say to yourself, "I'm not really this arrogant in real life or manipulative or condescending," but hear me very clear. Your posts reveal your heart and your heart lacks any love. If you cannot love those whom you can see, how can you love a God whom you can't see?
     
    #152 JonShaff, Apr 14, 2017
  13. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Here's the thing Brother Jon, you keep saying the spiritually dead can hear, but the bible avers differently. Dead in the English comes from the Greek word 'nekros' which means 'corpse'. Then your side of the debate says that 'dead does not mean dead' but separation from God. Then your side of the debate says 'hate does not mean hate' but to love less.

    Now , in that case, how do we know that God's love is really love? By you side of the debate's standards, love could mean 'God just tolerates us better'. Words then become subjective to each individual.
     
    #153 SovereignGrace, Apr 14, 2017
  14. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I don't see that in my responses. Please quote and we can discuss, thanks!
     
    #154 JonShaff, Apr 14, 2017
  15. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    speakest of thyself John Alden?


    HankD
     
    #155 HankD, Apr 14, 2017
  16. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Hear is an account where God spoke to one who was indeed spiritually dead:
    Not only that the spiritually dead one heard and answered God's question and then made a prayer request that God answered in a positive way:

    Genesis 4
    9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
    10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
    11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
    12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
    13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
    14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
    15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
    16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.


    HankD
     
    #156 HankD, Apr 14, 2017
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  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Where does it state that we still have free will after the Fall then? And why do we even need the Holy Spirit to enable us to receive Jesus then?
     
    #157 Yeshua1, Apr 14, 2017
  18. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Hank, was Cain redeemed so his spirit was brought to life from death? Or was Cain still dead in his sins? Did Cain ever receive saving faith?
    You are mixing the physical life of Cain, where he heard God, into the spiritual where we have no indication that he ever was made alive.
    That is the same problem that Jon is having. He takes physical life and attributes it to spiritual life. If we go by your proposal, Satan should be in perfect union with God...made fully alive because he has heard God's voice. Yet, that is not true in the least. Therefore, we can see that a person can be physically alive, yet spiritually dead. They can hear God physically speak and yet be entirely dead because God has not raised them to spiritual life. That is the image in Ephesians 2. You were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you once lived.
     
    #158 MennoSota, Apr 14, 2017
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  19. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Interesting judgment on your part. Your comments are expected from one who desires to ignore the scriptures in order to hold on to their pet theologies that place themselves on the throne and make God subservient. I have called out your faulty theology and you get upset. I expect this, even though the better response is to look at scripture and consider if you have a bias that is stopping you from seeing.
     
    #159 MennoSota, Apr 14, 2017
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The state of all of us as natural men, sinners, was such that we were at war against God, and we could not surrender by ourselves to God!
     
    #160 Yeshua1, Apr 14, 2017
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