Featured Rationalism & Antinomy

If words mean anything, then salvation is a saving from wrath. Once saved, there remains no process or progress by which we are justified, expiated, atoned for, reconciled, or by which God is further propitiated. Merely because the process of sanctification accompanies salvation does not mean that salvation is a process.

But all this only explains the meaning of what remains an imprecise expression. Yes, life in Christ progresses beyond the point of salvation; however, we were saved from death and wrath when we passed from death to life and from wrath to righteousness in Christ. Now that we have been saved--now that we have passed from death to life--we continue and progress in many ways in our new life in Christ; but we are not making any further progress in changing our end from heaven to hell or in changing our status from guilty to justified. Living as a saved person in Christ is an ongoing thing, but that does not make salvation a "progressive" thing itself--except as an imprecise expression that turns the meaning from a saving to living as a saved person.

 

First, why do the Calvinists emphasize this term? Regeneration is simply to generate again--the same kind of generation as in "these are the generations of Adam..." and "that which is [generated] in her is of the Holy Spirit. The word in Scripture is not a renewal of old life, but a begetting and birth of a new life. It is the generation or begetting of a new person, and not a restoring of an old nature. To be "born again" is to be "re-" (again) "generated" (born, begotten, fathered).

When we were begotten the first time, what were we in our mother's womb? Were we not a body and a spirit even in our newly conceived state? The new believer is born again , begotten again, fathered again, conceived again and regenerated because the spirit of a new Person is begotten within them---the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of adoption, the Spirit of His Son sent into our hearts. His nature is the only new nature that we have (there is nothing good in me but Jesus). It is not merely an indwelling, as the OT saints had, but something which creates a new man; because the Spirit of Christ is not merely put within us, but instead, is united to us full shared identity--the believer and Christ becoming one new man. Those who are Christ's are "one spirit with Him."

This rebirth or regeneration is all of God and by His power alone; but He who accomplishes this by Himself refuses to do it for anyone who does not believe. By believing, we do not regenerate ourselves; but we believe in One who is able to regenerate us. You may ask, how then is election unconditional, and how is the "master choice" still God's? The sinfulness of human beings has rendered all rebellious toward God to the degree that only He, by His grace, is able to persuade us to believe. Unbelief is spiritual rebellion and not mere ignorance of the facts. Being made in God's image, as spiritual beings, every man's heart and conscience have enough of a sense of the truth to be without excuse. And when the gospel is heard, the sinner's spirit senses the ring of truth and either embraces it or resists it. But Gods greater than all our defenses, and is able to bring any man to his knees in genuine, repentant faith. But God will only do this in those whom He has chosen in eternity past. Every man feels the call God to repent, and every man has the natural ability to do so; but only those whom God persuades will come. Had others came, God would have saved them, too, but they would not.

 

If you feel attacked or ridiculed, I apologize, as that was not my intent. I do not want to bludgeon, but only to illuminate. The living Word of God is intended to be applied to the mind as well as the heart. Discussing theology and doctrine in a forum such as this is inherently academic--if it were not, then we would bring only devotional points to the table.

 

First, to say Calvinism is valid even though irrational because God will sort it out later, is just like the guy selling a pig in a poke.
All we have to do is take one doctrine of Calvinism at a time and consider it rationally based on accepting the Bible means what it says.

But when 2 Thessalonians 2:13 is considered that fact that God chooses individuals for salvation through faith in the truth is rejected and the verse is altered in selected translations such that it no longer says what it says. The fact that several translations have been rewritten demonstrates to me that the advocates of Calvinism know full well what the verse actually says but have decided to stick with man-made doctrine rather than scripture. And it is this disobedience to the word that drives our endless debate, not rational analysis.

 

You are such a broken record with one verse taken out of context, Van. smh

 

Hmmm... you complain about my being pedantic, and then you reply as if a single prooftext is an adequate answer. Please try to avoid being ironic.

 

Carefully reading the posts I got to #12 Then: Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z.

My bad, no fault of the individual authors.

It's early here in WA State.
I have issues on either side of this debate of God's Sovereignty/Man's Responsibility was defined in the O/P.

Mugwump is my own label. I reject all others as they do not describe me.

M believes I am a semi-pelican. Eh, OK.

Back to sleep. Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z.

HankD

 

EVERY verse that you have ever posted here regarding calvinism were either misunderstood or else not in contex!

 

First, to say Calvinism is valid even though irrational because God will sort it out later, is just like the guy selling a pig in a poke.
All we have to do is take one doctrine of Calvinism at a time and consider it rationally based on accepting the Bible means what it says.

But when 2 Thessalonians 2:13 is considered that fact that God chooses individuals for salvation through faith in the truth is rejected and the verse is altered in selected translations such that it no longer says what it says. The fact that several translations have been rewritten demonstrates to me that the advocates of Calvinism know full well what the verse actually says but have decided to stick with man-made doctrine rather than scripture. And it is this disobedience to the word that drives our endless debate, not rational analysis.

Folks, note posts 46 and 51. These sort of nothing burgers are what actually fuel "endless debate." Note the complete lack of any rational analysis of 2 Thessalonians 2:13, or the tangential evidence stemming from the agenda driven rewrites found in the NIV, ESV and NLT. It it did not say our election was conditioned on the basis of faith in the truth, there would be no need to rewrite the verse. Just read the NASB, NKJV, LEB, NET, WEB or HCSB.

 

The sinner has NO capability within them to freely chose jesus to save them, so even be able to do that would be due to the Holy Spirit enabling them to do such!

 

Endless debates flow from repeating fake theology with no regard for scripture. Rational analysis of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 precludes unconditional election.

 

If it helps, the other half seems to be Bullhead so you got that going for ya!

 

Indeed, your fake theology shows no regard for the entirety of scripture, but instead relies solely on you taking one verse out of context.

Your lack of rational analysis is noted.

 

HankD

 

Folks, behold the endless "debate" offered in post #56. First a charge of not regarding scripture. Then a charge of taking a verse out of context. Finally a charge that I have not analyzed 2 Thessalonians 2:13 correctly. Did you see any rational analysis of 2 Thessalonians 2:13? Any explanation of why a few translations have altered the text to make it say we were saved through faith rather than what it says which is chosen through faith?

All of which proves the premise - endless debate flows from disobedience to the word, not rational analysis of scripture.

 

You're like a clanging gong, Van. Let us know when you are capable of reading the entire Bible.

 

Nothing to do with your original question but I also, whilst in my thirties, borrowed my childs microscooter to whizz down to the shops... In like fashion, whlist travelling at about 25 mph, the front wheel lodged in a crack in the pavement, the microscooter stopped dead but I carried on, literally flying thru the air and landing at the feet of people alighting a bus. I was really embarrassed. Of course, the people offered help but I just wanted to be as far away as possible...