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Why do Arminians have such a small view of God?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MennoSota, Jun 3, 2017.

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  1. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    God ordained the fall, by His Sovereign design. The unanswered question is: Why?

    There are no steps needed to prevent a human from believing. Humans are incapable of believing without God graciously saving them and giving them faith.

    Romans 3 clearly tells us that no one ever seeks after God. The opposite is true. All humans are on a one way path toward hell. The only escape is if God intervenes and plucks them out of the stream and places them on the narrow road.
     
    #61 MennoSota, Jun 5, 2017
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  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    I don't know what Arminians think.
     
    #62 InTheLight, Jun 5, 2017
  3. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    The Calvinist cannot fathom a Sovereign God allowing His creation a will to make choices which may go against His Own will that He would have them to do. Are you not limiting God's own Sovereignty?
     
    #63 steaver, Jun 5, 2017
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  4. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    You did not answer my question. I agree God ordained the fall. The question is...

    "Was it Adam's will to sin or was it God's will that Adam would sin?"

    Yes, according to your view, but you did not explain...

    "Can you explain why God would have to take additional steps to prevent someone from believing if God has already proclaimed that they could not possibly believe without God causing them to believe?"
     
    #64 steaver, Jun 5, 2017
  5. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    This is not true. Any person can imagine such a God.

    However, we cannot find the God you imagine within the text of the Bible.

    Having a great imagination does not mean you have a great God, steaver. It only means the God you imagine is not the God of the Bible.
     
    #65 MennoSota, Jun 5, 2017
  6. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    I did answer your question. It seems, however, that you don't comprehend my answer to the question.

    Adam certainly acted according to the situation set before him. That action falls within the will of God.
     
    #66 MennoSota, Jun 5, 2017
  7. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Your question here is nonsensical.

    What additional steps does God take to prevent someone from believing?

    I told you. Romans 3 clearly informs us that no one ever seeks God.

    Thus, I ask you..."What steps must God take to prevent humans from perishing in hell?" That is the logical and sensible question to ask.
     
    #67 MennoSota, Jun 5, 2017
  8. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Here is what you posted....

    "Read Ezekiel and Jeremiah to understand the Sovereign work of God in placing stumbling blocks before those who will not believe".

    Now if those who will not believe cannot believe without God causing them to believe then why does God need to place stumbling blocks in their path?

    And elsewhere...

    "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." (Jo 12:40)

    Why does God need to blind the already blind?
     
    #68 steaver, Jun 5, 2017
  9. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Ok, let me try once again....

    Was it Adam's will to sin, or was it God's will that Adam should sin, or maybe both?
     
    #69 steaver, Jun 5, 2017
  10. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Hey Menno,

    btw, guess what song we sang in church this Sunday? Victory in Jesus!! Ever sing that one? "He sought me and He bought me with His redeeming blood" Amen!
     
    #70 steaver, Jun 5, 2017
  11. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Ask God why he placed stumbling blocks in front of Israel. He may or may not be inclined to tell you, however. He is Sovereign after all. He is not obligated to answer your question.
     
    #71 MennoSota, Jun 5, 2017
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  12. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Lol. Good one!

    I already know why, you do not because Calvinism will not allow you to see it. Those who cannot choose do to blindness do not need additional blinding.
     
    #72 steaver, Jun 5, 2017
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The theology described in the
    The one espoused by Jaconb Atminus
    Five Articles of Remonstrance so called!
     
    #73 Yeshua1, Jun 5, 2017
  14. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Ah, yes, "it's a mystery."

    The answer is found in Acts 28:27 (and Isaiah 6:8-9):

    Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
    Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
    So that I should heal them.”’

    So God had to further confound the Israelites with stumbling blocks so that they wouldn't/couldn't see and hear the truth and understand with their hearts and repent.
     
    #74 InTheLight, Jun 5, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2017
  15. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    What does the Bible tell us, steaver?

    You want to reach a conclusion without seeing what God says.

    Do we read anything about Adams will superceding God's will?

    Do we see God as a casual observer who rarely intervenes in the affairs of men?

    What does the Bible say?

    What the Bible does not say is that man's will chooses God.

    What the Bible does say is that God's will chooses men.

    This we know. What is not revealed is the answer to your question as you ask it. What is revealed is that God's will is always accomplished. This means that God's will is accomplished in the fall. Again, we don't know why that is God's will. And...God is under no obligation to tell us why.

    That may be offensive to you. It offends many humans when God chooses not to explain his will, yet demands that we be judged anyway. Read Romans 9 to see how that works.
     
    #75 MennoSota, Jun 5, 2017
  16. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Strawman. Check.

    Strawman. Check.

    "It's a mystery".
     
    #76 InTheLight, Jun 5, 2017
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Would see it more as some have a problem with God being total Sovereign, as they desire to keep real free will at all costs!
     
    #77 Yeshua1, Jun 5, 2017
  18. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Israel wanted an earthly king. God did not want Israel to have an earthly king. But Israel got their earthly king. So did man's will usurp God's Sovereignty for them not to have an earthly king?

    This is not about man's will destroying the Sovereignty of God. God by his Sovereignty has given man this will/ability to make choices. To strip man of his God given will is to strip God of His Sovereign Authority to give it.
     
    #78 steaver, Jun 5, 2017
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think the answer to that would be like God allowed them to divorce, but His desired will was not to do such!
     
    #79 Yeshua1, Jun 5, 2017
  20. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    God's will is always accomplished, we agree. What we do not agree upon is that God has factored in the will He has given man to make choices, even knowing the wrong choices man will make. It's a beautiful thing! A perfect plan to educate His creation and for Him to develop a creation that can freely choose to love and worship Him.

    And btw, I know why God set Adam up to fail, and you should too.
     
    #80 steaver, Jun 5, 2017
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