The Sin of the Consumption of Blood

[Adonia]

It doesn't matter, talmudic law or not.

According to the scripture you cannot consume even 1 DROP of BLOOD or you are cursed.

You must cook animal flesh to the point of WELL DONE (if it is pink AT ALL, there is still blood) and shake the residual blood off the meat or you have broken the Law of Moses.

HankD

I tried to explain this all to our friend Jason in another thread but he just won't listen. The Jews have a complete set of rules regarding the preparation of meats in order to conform to the Jewish Dietary Laws of the OT. The mere ritual killing of the animal is not sufficient.

First and foremost, the slaughtering must be done by a Rabbi who is certified in the proper killing procedure. Then the meat or poultry must be soaked in a salt solution for a period of time and after that the meats must then be wrapped in salt (certified kosher of course) for another period of time. Then they are rinsed and that is the only procedure that will remove all of the blood from the meat or poultry. Also, all the veins must be removed which is something that is not done in a commercial slaughterhouse.

The meat one buys at the Piggly Wiggly or Wendy's does not go through the above described procedures and contains blood. They are therefore unclean meats, as unclean as eating the other proscribed foods. Our friend Jason makes up his own rules as he goes along and thinks he is conforming to the Law, but he isn't. Those are the facts and that is the truth.

 

[Jason1]

I tried to explain this all to our friend Jason in another thread but he just won't listen. The Jews have a complete set of rules regarding the preparation of meats in order to conform to the Jewish Dietary Laws of the OT. The mere ritual killing of the animal is not sufficient.

First and foremost, the slaughtering must be done by a Rabbi who is certified in the proper killing procedure. Then the meat or poultry must be soaked in a salt solution for a period of time and after that the meats must then be wrapped in salt (certified kosher of course) for another period of time. Then they are rinsed and that is the only procedure that will remove all of the blood from the meat or poultry. Also, all the veins must be removed which is something that is not done in a commercial slaughterhouse.

The meat one buys at the Piggly Wiggly or Wendy's does not go through the above described procedures and contains blood. They are therefore unclean meats, as unclean as eating the other proscribed foods. Our friend Jason makes up his own rules as he goes along and thinks he is conforming to the Law, but he isn't. Those are the facts and that is the truth.

I don't follow jewish rabbis like you want me to. I follow written word. Man makes up their own added rules or subtracts them in violation of the commandments. (deu 4:2)

 

[Aaron]

Where are people drinking blood anyway? You know a congregation of vampires?

 

[Jason1]

Where are people drinking blood anyway? You know a congregation of vampires?

Right, most people don't have a problem with this commandment. Slaughtering houses do kosher kills by draining the blood from the animals.

There are some people, however, that will make a blood soup or will drink the blood of an animal after their first kill hunting (I had a friend do this). It is pretty rare nowadays in our culture at least.

 

[Adonia]

Right, most people don't have a problem with this commandment. Slaughtering houses do kosher kills by draining the blood from the animals.

Commercial slaughter houses are not kosher slaughter houses. There is nothing kosher going on at Tyson, Cargill, JBS, or National Beef meat processing plants. Those institutions do not employ one Rabbi to oversee the killing process, not one! You are misinformed, misguided, and just plain wrong. God is not fooled with your specious claims.

 

[Adonia]

I don't follow jewish rabbis like you want me to. I follow written word. Man makes up their own added rules or subtracts them in violation of the commandments. (deu 4:2)

You should, because that is the command that is given in the Torah. Go read Exodus 18: 13-26. God placed men in positions of authority over all the Jewish people on earth - they are called Rabbis.

Verse 16 of Exodus 18 says: " when they have a matter, it cometh unto me; and I judge between a man and his neighbour, and I make them know the statutes of God, and His laws.’

What is important to understand here is that whenever we see an injunction from God that they needed to follow what was written in the Torah that also means, based on this passage, that they are also REQUIRED to consult with the Judges and follow what they say.

You should also read Deuteronomy 1: 9-18 which also talks of rabbinical authority.

The Torah itself explicitly commands that the people of Israel choose for themselves qualified people and to bestow upon them the full authority to render decisions, which when given become Biblically obligatory on the people.

The Rabbis thus have the authority to determine many things including what we are discussing here, the issue as to what makes foods true kosher.

What kosher really is has been decided by those in authority, and you my friend are not that authority.

 

[MennoSota]

Where are people drinking blood anyway? You know a congregation of vampires?

In the local parish...

 

[Jason1]

You should, because that is the command that is given in the Torah. Go read Exodus 18: 13-26. God placed men in positions of authority over all the Jewish people on earth - they are called Rabbis.

Verse 16 of Exodus 18 says: " when they have a matter, it cometh unto me; and I judge between a man and his neighbour, and I make them know the statutes of God, and His laws.’

What is important to understand here is that whenever we see an injunction from God that they needed to follow what was written in the Torah that also means, based on this passage, that they are also REQUIRED to consult with the Judges and follow what they say.

You should also read Deuteronomy 1: 9-18 which also talks of rabbinical authority.

The Torah itself explicitly commands that the people of Israel choose for themselves qualified people and to bestow upon them the full authority to render decisions, which when given become Biblically obligatory on the people.

The Rabbis thus have the authority to determine many things including what we are discussing here, the issue as to what makes foods true kosher.

What kosher really is has been decided by those in authority, and you my friend are not that authority.

Rabbi's are self elevated and are not the judges in question. The levites acted as teachers during those times and not those of judah.

In Deu each tribe was to appoint leaders to judge according to torah. These leaders were never to add to or take away from the torah (deu 4:2).

The rabbi's do not have authority over Israel today (even tho they think they do). The NT makes abundantly clear that we are free from the bondage of man-made teaching.

Written law is the standard for all and man's additions are moot.

 

[Jason1]

Commercial slaughter houses are not kosher slaughter houses. There is nothing kosher going on at Tyson, Cargill, JBS, or National Beef meat processing plants. Those institutions do not employ one Rabbi to oversee the killing process, not one! You are misinformed, misguided, and just plain wrong. God is not fooled with your specious claims.

Again, scriptural kosher vs man-made kosher are totally different. There is no need to have a rabbi to be scriptural kosher and in obedience. Only the blood must be drained and that is enough.

 

[Adonia]

Again, scriptural kosher vs man-made kosher are totally different. There is no need to have a rabbi to be scriptural kosher and in obedience. Only the blood must be drained and that is enough.

No, that is not enough. Blood still remains in the meat and the Rabbi is an integral part of the process. You are kidding yourself. This is how God operates - He sets the overview and leaves the details to those whom He has set in authority on this earth. For instance, God says men should marry and He leaves the marrying details to others. See how that works? The Jews have a over a 6000 year history in deciding such things, you don't. They are right and you are wrong.

 

[Adonia]

In the local parish...

Yes you are correct and it is just as Jesus says. "This IS my body" and "This IS my blood". It's a shame you do not believe the words of the master.

 

[Adonia]

Rabbi's are self elevated and are not the judges in question. The levites acted as teachers during those times and not those of judah.

In Deu each tribe was to appoint leaders to judge according to torah. These leaders were never to add to or take away from the torah (deu 4:2).

The rabbi's do not have authority over Israel today (even tho they think they do). The NT makes abundantly clear that we are free from the bondage of man-made teaching.

Written law is the standard for all and man's additions are moot.

I have pointed out correctly from the Scriptures the authority that the Rabbis have here on earth. They were given this authority by God and it is confirmed as such in the Torah. To repeat in Exodus it says in part: "...and I make them know the statues of God, and His laws". And then in Deuteronomy it states: ...."and to bestow upon them the full authority to render decisions, which when given become Biblically obligatory on the people". These are directives from God as evidenced in the Torah. You deny His words in favor of your own determination of things.

You are just a man like you say others are from the scriptures except you have no authority to decide anything and you deny all the other men mentioned sent here by God to instruct the faithful. You are in far more dire straights than I would have thought possible and the cult of Jason will not save you.

 

[Jason1]

I have pointed out correctly from the Scriptures the authority that the Rabbis have here on earth. They were given this authority by God and it is confirmed as such in the Torah. To repeat in Exodus it says in part: "...and I make them know the statues of God, and His laws". And then in Deuteronomy it states: ...."and to bestow upon them the full authority to render decisions, which when given become Biblically obligatory on the people". These are directives from God as evidenced in the Torah. You deny His words in favor of your own determination of things.

You are just a man like you say others are from the scriptures except you have no authority to decide anything and you deny all the other men mentioned sent here by God to instruct the faithful. You are in far more dire straights than I would have thought possible and the cult of Jason will not save you.

I thought you were catholic? Don't you follow the liberal pope instead of liberal rabbis?

If the rabbis are so right, then why was Israel removed from the land for almost 2000 years? Do you ignore all of the verses of them transgressing the law for the sake of their traditions?

 

[MennoSota]

Yes you are correct and it is just as Jesus says. "This IS my body" and "This IS my blood". It's a shame you do not believe the words of the master.

It's a shame you take a figure of speech literally in this instance. In so doing your church changes grace and turns it into works, thus establishing another gospel that is contrary to the gospel of Christ.

 

[Adonia]

It's a shame you take a figure of speech literally in this instance. In so doing your church changes grace and turns it into works, thus establishing another gospel that is contrary to the gospel of Christ.

You call it a work, we call it doing and believing what Jesus said. Jesus also gave us a prayer that begins: "Our Father, who art in heaven......"What, we are not supposed to say it now because to you it is some sort of work?

Grace flows from things like prayer, like getting married, like participating in Holy Communion organically. We are instructed to do those things because they are a template for a holy life and grace is the free gift result of doing them. Don't you pray? Don't you believe in the sacredness of marriage? Don't you worship the Father?

Through Jesus, God's love is poured into our hearts via the Holy Spirit, God working in our lives - that is grace. No my friend, the gospel the Catholic Church preaches is correct - have faith that Jesus is the Savior, love God with all your heart, love your neighbor as yourself, and strive to live a holy and pleasing life to God. If that is not the gospel of Jesus Christ then no one has the correct gospel of Jesus Christ.

So I have instructed you once again as to what we believe, now if you claim that we believe something different that would be bearing false witness against us which would be a very serious sin.

 

[MennoSota]

You call it a work, we call it doing and believing what Jesus said. Jesus also gave us a prayer that begins: "Our Father, who art in heaven......"What, we are not supposed to say it now because to you it is some sort of work?

Grace flows from things like prayer, like getting married, like participating in Holy Communion organically. We are instructed to do those things because they are a template for a holy life and grace is the free gift result of doing them. Don't you pray? Don't you believe in the sacredness of marriage? Don't you worship the Father?

Through Jesus, God's love is poured into our hearts via the Holy Spirit, God working in our lives - that is grace. No my friend, the gospel the Catholic Church preaches is correct - have faith that Jesus is the Savior, love God with all your heart, love your neighbor as yourself, and strive to live a holy and pleasing life to God. If that is not the gospel of Jesus Christ then no one has the correct gospel of Jesus Christ.

So I have instructed you once again as to what we believe, now if you claim that we believe something different that would be bearing false witness against us which would be a very serious sin.

Adonia, you have a false concept of grace. You teach salvation by works, apart from grace. You are no different than Jason in that you have no concept of grace.
Your sin is very serious.

 

[christiang]

Who is it a sin for, Jewish people?

Everyone, for abstaining from blood precludes even Abraham,

Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth... But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. (Genesis 9:1-4 [NIV])

 

[christiang]

You're the one twisting the Scripture. They were told to abstain from those things so as not to be an offense to the Jews, not because they would be defiled by them.

So abstaining from sexual immorality, which is also part of that list, should be abstained from simply to not cause offense too, as if it were not a sin in of itself? What a foolish statement, and then accusing me of twisting scripture when it is quite the contrary, that you are the one twisting scripture, ignorant that abstaining from blood even PRECLUDED the Jewish people,

Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth... But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. (Genesis 9:1-4 [NIV])

 

[Jason1]

Adonia, you have a false concept of grace. You teach salvation by works, apart from grace. You are no different than Jason in that you have no concept of grace.
Your sin is very serious.

Grace and works go together, never separated. In fact, the law was given as a measure of grace:

Deu 6:24 ‘And יהוה commanded us to do all these laws, to fear יהוה our Elohim, for our good always, to keep us alive, as it is today.
Deu 6:25 ‘And it is righteousness for us when we guard to do all this command before יהוה our Elohim, as He has commanded us.’​

 

[MennoSota]

Grace and works go together, never separated. In fact, the law was given as a measure of grace:

Deu 6:24 ‘And יהוה commanded us to do all these laws, to fear יהוה our Elohim, for our good always, to keep us alive, as it is today.
Deu 6:25 ‘And it is righteousness for us when we guard to do all this command before יהוה our Elohim, as He has commanded us.’​

Grace always is the cause. Works are always the effect.

Works can never, never ever, cause grace to stop being grace.

Both you and Adonia teach a perverse idea that grace caused by works. That is anathema.