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Featured A challenge to both Calvinist and Non-Calvinist

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by utilyan, Jul 6, 2017.

  1. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I'm not sure what your point is here. The Lord Jesus came to His own Jewish countrymen and preached the Gospel to them, and they, for the large part, rejected Him.
    Again, what are you suggesting? God gave the law and the prophets to Israel and finally sent them His Son. They are without excuse.

    We know that God has no desire for the death of the wicked (eg. Ezekiel 18:31-32), and we know that the Lord Jesus says, 'The one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out' (John 6:37). But we also know that people will not come to Christ of their own free will. 'There is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside' (Romans 3:11-12). This applies both to Jews and Gentiles (v.9). Unless God sovereignly draws men and women to Christ, they will not come (John 3:19; John 6:44). So God has, in His mercy, given a 'vast crowd' of people to Christ, of 'every nation, tribe, people and tongue' (Revelation 7:9-10). The Lord Jesus has redeemed them at measureless cost, and they will come to Him (John 6:37a) and will be saved.
    :Roflmao Individual Calvinists may possibly struggle with these texts, but they never bothered Calvin and they have never bothered me.
    :rolleyes: Yes it can, as I have shown. You are whistling in the dark.
    What it does is that it makes God out to be weak and subject to His creation. 'Salvation is of the Lord' (Jonah 2:9), not of sinners somehow to save themselves.
     
    #61 Martin Marprelate, Jul 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
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  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Not only knows, but is active in having history come to pass!
     
  3. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    "The Lord Jesus came to His own Jewish countrymen and preached the Gospel to them, and they, for the large part, rejected Him."

    Oh really? What was offered to those reprobates that was rejected?
     
  4. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Mark 1:15; Matthew 11:28-30 for example.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Himself
     
  6. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Oh so I guess God loves everyone and salvation is offered to all.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    It is, but only the elect can and will accept Him!
     
  8. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    But he still WANTS AND DESIRES ALL. I believe only the folks in heaven are "elect".
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    If God really wanted/desired all to get saved, all would!
     
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  10. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Get ready for someone to add human works as the reason why all are not saved. They do not comprehend that such an argument makes humans greater in willpower than God. Thus, they argue for a puny god who cannot fulfill his promise.
    I reject such an argument as implausible and biblically unsupported. Thus, the word "all" cannot be universally speaking of humanity. It must be speaking of all humans whom God has chosen to redeem.
     
  11. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Bible versions are preference of the individual and none that I know of can make the claim to be original to the actual word dictated by God.
    MB
     
  12. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    That is an amazing answer, MB. Wow, not many Sola Scripturist would admit this.

    But in this exercise I took a bible verse and then I wrote in a fake. The dilemma here is Calvinist agree with my fake verse which is why they are very reluctant to acknowledge and wholeheartedly back up the true verse.
     
  13. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    We're waiting for your greek text...

    Mostly, we recognize your question as mentally deficient and not worthy of reply.
    Your attempt at insinuating we are afraid of your views is laughable by the number of posts where you are shown to be entirely in error. At some point we stop speaking to a fool.
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Which Greek text did you use for that?
     
  15. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Πώς είναι αυτό το καυτό πυροβολισμό?


    A

    δι’ οὗ καὶ τὴν προσαγωγὴν ἐσχήκαμεν τῇ πίστει εἰς τὴν χάριν ταύτην ἐν ᾗ ἑστήκαμεν, καὶ καυχώμεθα ἐπ’ ἐλπίδι τῆς δόξης τοῦ Θεοῦ.

    B

    δι’ οὗ καὶ τὴν προσαγωγὴν ἐσχήκαμεν τῇ χάριν πίστει εἰς τὴν πίστει ταύτην ἐν ᾗ ἑστήκαμεν, καὶ καυχώμεθα ἐπ’ ἐλπίδι τῆς δόξης τοῦ Θεοῦ.


    Do you want it in a Wheel of Fortune format next? Tell me which scripture above is true and which is a false idea invented by idiots.
     
  16. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Which one did you pick...and why did you pick it?
    I look forward to your answer. Explain the Greek for us.
     
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  17. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    The real verse was from NASB, The fake I made up.


    The bible.....you can pick it for me. I don't care if its a westcott/ hort, stephanus, nestle.

    The challenge is one verse is actual scripture the other is fake. Can you tell which is fake or not?
     
  18. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I picked B for the sake of Irony, I wrote it, it is fake, unscriptural and I think you should call it holy scripture and if you refuse that will be the cherry on top.

    Is not the word of Utilyan greater then God? probably not.


    First line "A" literal says:

    Through whom also the access we have by faith into the grace this in which we stand and we boast in hope of the glory of God.

    2nd verse "B" literal is:

    Through whom also the access we have by grace into the faith this in which we stand and we boast in hope of the glory of God.


    Which one of these verses is TRUE?


    Keep in mind folks I do not know koine greek I'm just doing this at menno's request.

    Being in greek doesn't change anything......its like in a challenge to parallel park a car to come back with well how about "blue" car?

    The color is not going to make a difference.
     
  19. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Great! So, you agree that this is the word of God:

    Ephesians 1:3-6,10-11
    [3]All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ.
    [4]Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.
    [5]God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
    [6]So we praise God for the glorious grace he has poured out on us who belong to his dear Son.
    [10]And this is the plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ—everything in heaven and on earth.
    [11]Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.
     
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  20. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Amen, sounds good. And I love the order of things.

    Great ! so you also agree with the word of God:


    13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,


    Thank God it doesn't say after you were sealed in him with the holy spirit of promise you were then able to listen to the message of the truth and believe.



    I love that prayer in Ephesians. Since you can't pick out elect or depraved:

    16do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers; 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. 18I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,

    I guess you can pray that Jesus Christ may give everyone a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him.


    Ephesians 2

    19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,


    Its true we are no longer strangers and aliens, one happy family, can you name and recognize one Saint, brother?
     
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