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Salvation by the work of attaining God’s attention
- Thread starter agedman
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Oh, my!
Now, I am old.
I am forgetful.
But I trust The Father to keep me from ever being so opposed to myself as to deny my own statements!
Not to drag out all posts that van made that conflict with himself in this post but to in attempt to keep the focus on the issue:
Van’s own quote says:
“The ungodly lost spiritually dead individuals first put their wholehearted trust in Christ, and then if God credits that faith as righteousness, He transfers them into Christ where they undergo the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration and arise in Christ a new creation, made righteous, blameless and perfect. Thus the justification occrs after God puts a believer into Christ.”
If one is “spiritually dead” such faith is also dead.
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This is not true, Van, and you know it. You should be ashamed of yourself.
'Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father in heaven"' (Matthew 16:16-17).
As it is written,
'.......No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit' (1 Corinthians 12:3).
And as it is written again:
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me...........No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him'
If faith qualifies us to receive God's grace then by definition it becomes a work, something we do to get ourselves right with God.
It proves it. 'For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, lest anyone should boast' (v.8). If faith is something we have to work up ourselves, it is something we can boast about. We did it; others didn't.
Indeed it isn't. It is the gift of God.
Indeed so. By the grace of God we are given faith to believe in Christ, and His atoning death, for salvation; we trust in Him, and God credits our faith as righteousness and justifies us. All of God, none of us. Nothing to boast about except our wonderful Saviour (Galatians 6:14).
But it's not the work of man that saves, even if believe is something you do, which is what you hinted at.
That's all I wanted to hear.
Done here. Too many wannabe preachers who like to pat themselves on the back, and won't let the gospel stand on it's own. They seem to want to rephrase it in words no one needs to hear or cares about. Lot's of bragging, Showing off, maybe.
Not directed at you, TC. Just what I see here , in general.
No, I didn't. Faith is something you do. Just like obey is something you do. Just like repentance is something you do. But you don't do it on your own. You do these things as you are enabled to do so by the Grace of God. His Grace enables us to do what we ought to do and be what we ought to be.
Exactly. Christ died on the cross for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. That is the gospel. No mention of "ask Jesus to come into your heart." No, "walk the aisle and commit your life to Christ." No, "say this prayer and you will be saved." Just believe the Gospel as you are enabled by the work of the Holy Spirit.
In Acts 9 was Saul reaching out to receive something he desired from God or was God calling him out of darkness and setting him apart for God's own purpose?
Did Saul reach out and take the Holy Spirit or was he anointed with the Holy Spirit?
Personally, I do not believe Saul could have said, I do not want to be saved nor can anyone whom God wants to save.
earlier, I as ked Van two questions to which I cannot trace a reply.
Martin Marprelate said:
So you want to use an example of someone God called who was to have seen Christ post resurrection and compare that to an every day salvation experience?
Are you stating salvation is different, or merely the event scenery is different?
I hold salvation is no different be it Jew, Gentile, Apostle, prophet, OT, NT, all are saved the same way.
However, God in His wisdom brings every person, with their own set of living experiences, to Him.
Paul’s experience was for Paul’s benefit, for those around him were not participants.
The Eunuch’s experience was for the Eunuch, for there is no account of any of his party participating the same way.
Each person’s drama of life and their adoption is unique, for that was God’s way.
Which then begs the question: Is there corporate salvation in the manner of eternal life?
I am not sure why this needs explanation. Yes Paul's conversion was different in that he was an Apostle and had to be a witness to the resurrection of Christ. he had to have direct interaction with Christ. No one today has that in that same way.
You missed the point.
Paul’s experience was unique.
All adopted by God have a unique experience.
The Salvation is all on the same terms.
No person is redeemed any differently than any other.
Neither did Paul.
Peter set the criteria in Acts 1:21-22 “Of the men therefore who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22 beginning from the baptism of John, to the day that he was received up from us, of these one must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”
Accompanied the Twelve "all the time" that Christ was with them, "beginning from the baptism of John" until the time He ascended. And be any eye witness of the resurrection.
Paul did not accompany the Twelve all the time of Christ's earthly ministry.
Paul did not accompany the Twelve from the time John was baptizing.
Paul was not present at the ascension of Jesus.
Paul was not a witness of the physical resurrection of Jesus.
Paul was a witness Sorry
Act 9:4 And falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?”
Act 9:5 And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
Act 9:6 But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.”
No, you miss my point. Paul's experience was based on his call as an Apostle. That cannot be applied to us today.
No, you missed the point.
Paul’s experience was unique as are ALL experiences.
No two alike.
ALL experiences are based on God’s specific purpose for that person.
One experience does not lift that person as more anointed or special than any other. Each person has a one to one encounter.
I didn't miss that point I ignored it as it is irrelevant. You are illogically conflating the two.
You cannot compare Paul's call into the ministry to the salvation experience.
How can you not see that EVERY persons experience is just as Personal as Paul’s? Each person’s unique.
Salvation the same, experience unique.
The experience didn’t call Him to the ministry, that came 3 days AFTER the experience.
Did you not first have a personal, one on one encounter, and at some later point anointed to the ministry?
That experience was done in that fashion by God purely because of His calling. Not sure why that needs explaining either.
Not true.
The experience was what Paul needed.
Your experience was what you needed.
There is no calling in the experience.
Here is the Scripture proof.
5And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, 6but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do.” 7The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.
The Resurrection was physical. Paul did not witness the physical resurrection of Christ. He heard a voice and saw the light.
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