Featured "Free Choice" - MB

Exactly. Free will is something we all need in order to Love. We cannot love someone including God with out choice.
Calvinism says we have no choice. We are forced to Love God. We are forced to be saved. and this can't happen unless God chooses to save you. There is no surrender and they really do not know if they've even been chosen. Calvinist always want to point to what there church history says and really it all boils down to Catholicism from before the reformation. After all Calvinism came out of the Catholic church. This is why they are sometimes called reformers. For all intents and purposes they are reformed Catholics. A man named Augustine in about the third or forth century wrote a book called the city of God and the Catholics built their doctrines around it.MB

 

No I do not disagree with either passage yet neither has anything to do with free choice.

Yes, because they wanted to reform the corruption of the RCC. But got kicked out for their efforts.

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Then you admit the truth. Catholicism is where Calvinism.
MB

 

Jesus stated to us that those whom he has set free, are fee indeed, so what were we set free from?

 

Scripture please. I've read my bible cover to cover many times. I have never found any scripture that says men have free will unto salvation.

The Bondage of the will should be required reading for all Christians whether you agree or not. It was a huge moment in church history.

http://www.reformedreader.org/bow.htm

A quote:

Since God's foreknowledge is not uncertain, "free-will" is non-existent

It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flat, and utterly shatters it; so that those who want to assert it must either deny my bombshell, or pretend not to notice it, or find some other way of dodging it. Surely it was you, my good Erasmus, who a moment ago asserted that God is by nature just, and kindness itself? If this is true, does it not follow that He is immutably just and kind? that, as His nature remains unchanged to all eternity, so do His justice and kindness? And what is said of His justice and kindness must be said also of His knowledge, His wisdom, His goodness, His will, and the other Divine attributes. But if it is religious, godly and wholesome, to affirm these things of God, as you do, what has come over you, that now you should contradict yourself by affirming that it is irreligious, idle and vain to say that God foreknows by necessity? You insist that we should learn the immutability of God's will, while forbidding us to know the immutably of His foreknowledge! Do you suppose that He does not will what He foreknows, or that He does not foreknow what He wills? If he wills what He foreknows, His will is eternal and changeless, because His nature is so. From which it follows, by resistless logic, that all we do, however it may appear to us to be done freely and optionally, is in reality done necessarily and immutably in respect of God's will. For the will of God is effective and cannot be impeded, since power belongs to God's nature; and His wisdom is such that He cannot be deceived. Since, then His will is not impeded, what is done cannot but be done where, when, how, as far as, and by whom, He foresees and wills...

You could benefit from a course in church history.

 

Then you admit the truth. Catholicism is where Calvinism.
MB[/QUOTE]

Completely untrue.

You need this class more than I thought! 01 - Why Church History

 

What are we defining as "free will"? I'm sure Arminians and Calvinists hold different definitions.

 

Nope. The RCC, prior to the Reformation, was entirely Pelagian. Salvation was by works. The rosary was called "God's Stairway to Heaven."

Lies.

False misrepresentation of the Catholic Faith, No catholic believe salvation is by works or earned.

We have a catechism that describes exactly what we believe,

you can quote it, That way you can stop lying.

I would be surprised if a Calvinist disagreed on something he didn't have to MAKE UP as his oppositions position.


Like I'm Catholic and don't agree with MB, He doesn't think Calvinism is right, so you MAKE UP he doesn't believe in God's sovereignty.

I could verify with you, what are your beliefs, I can say well do you believe this? no? well how about this? no? And I will keep going till I get it right.......and still find something wrong to disagree with your faith.

Making up lies of what the other person believes is a sin.

 

God's sovereignty, nothing is impossible with God, so his system HAS TO BE CALVINIST. LOL!!!!!!

God can do ANYTHING HE WANTS, so its impossible he gives anyone free will because [blasphemy edited]


Seriously is it possible for God to run the entire system of existence in a non-Calvinist way?

Is that an option at all. Can he realey do what he wants?



Is he forced to, required knowledge.

Can God beat you in a game of poker without knowing what hand you got? Or is the only possible way he can win is if he knows and picks out the hand for you?

 

Not exactly.
All must have faith in order to be saved. Hearing the Word of God does cause men to come to have faith. Faith is trusting in Christ.
Not one person in the Bible was ever saved with out faith.
Not one Gentile was ever elected in scripture.
No where in scripture is the atonement ever limited.
No where in scripture is saving Grace from God ever given with out the person having Faith in Christ
No where in scripture does it say that man must persevere.
Calvinist claim scriptural references that when read in the context of scripture does not say what they claim it does.
Some if not all Calvinist try to apply what is written to the Jews, to them selves.
Didn't you notice that total depravity has not been proven to be true
MB