"Allegorical" and "Spiritual" Hermeneutics

I see all end times view as acceptable, except for full blown preterism!

 

Wow! Is this a case of 'Great minds think alike' or 'small minds seldom differ'? I vote for the first one!

 

THat proves the point that the first thousand years is indefinite, & the other definite thousands refer back to the indefinite thousand.

 

It's very kind of you to say so, but I'm not sure I am better than that. The Holy Spirit is obviously referencing Psalm 90, but the point remains: 1,ooo years is like a day to God; would 1,001 years be more?

I think the teaching here is that God sits outside time and everything is a boundless present to Him.

I think it does track. You might say to your son/grandson, "If I've told you once. I've told you a thousand times not to do that," which would (I hope!) be hyperbole, and in the same breath say to your wife, there were five thousand people in church/ at the ball game/at the shopping mall today, meaning a literal five thousand

Time will tell. I'm quietly confident that any apology will be coming from the other direction

 

It's not clear that Peter is quoting Psalm 90, though obviously the idea is related. And if he is quoting poetry it doesn't mean he is being poetic. When the Lord quoted Psalm 22 on the cross he wasn't singing a song. He was suffering the dreadful experience David could only hint at. The onlookers didn't join in the Psalm, they said: “Look, He is calling for Elijah!”

Peter is very specifically dealing with the scoffers who will perish before this generation has passed. The day, the thousand years, will amount to 35-40 years. Then the Lord will come according to his warning in his Olivet prophecy. All the elements of the OC religion will be burnt up.

And we've been in the last days since Pentecost.

 

Actually, by their referring back, they indeed support that verse 2 is a literal 1000 years. Not the opposite.

 

Disagree.

HankD

 

I know what a figure of speech is.

Clearly literal? So know one else knew Greek at all?

I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion (temporal 1000 year reign), and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise." (Dialogue with Trypho, CHAPTER LXXX --Justin Martyr.

 

I am saying if it was so clear why would anyone oppose it?
He was, he defended his position after this but also said many thought otherwise in his dialog with Trypho.

Have you read the dialog?

 

My mother was an English and elocution teacher. I had anacolutha, litotes, onomatopoeia and whatnot pushed down my throat at an early age.

 

Would it not have been fair to have finished the quote?

“Moreover, I pointed out to you that some who are called Christians, but are godless, impious heretics, teach doctrines that are in every way blasphemous, atheistical, and foolish. But that you may know that I do not say this before you alone, I shall draw up a statement, so far as I can, of all the arguments which have passed between us; in which I shall record myself as admitting the very same things which I admit to you. For I choose to follow not men or men's doctrines, but God and the doctrines[delivered] by Him. For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this[truth], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians, even as one, if he would rightly consider it, would not admit that the Sadducees, or similar sects of Genist , Meristae,Gelilaeans, Hellenists, Pharisees, Baptists, are Jews(do not hear me impatiently when I tell you what I think), but are[only] called Jews and children of Abraham, worshipping God with the lips, as God Himself declared, but the heart was far from Him. But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.”​

You only quoted what you thought would convince.

In leaving out that which that which was not conformable, you presented you presented incomplete information.

WHO were the ones Martyr said where not Christians?

WHAT was it such taught?

 

NO KIDDING.


I stated he defended his position later.

He is saying some reject the resurrection.
Not about the 1000 year reign.

Back to the original part, that actually is relevant to the topic.

I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion , and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.

 

And, to whom did he account were such, and what did he consider their status as believers?

Do you honestly see Justin Martyr sitting in fellowship with whom he calls heretics?

 

“... But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.” (Attributed to Justin Martyr from:Saint Justin Martyr: Dialogue with Trypho (Roberts-Donaldson)

 

I would add pre tribulation rapturism.