The New and True Exodus....In Jesus....Central Gospel Truth

[Iconoclast]

agedman,

This post is not meant to be critical, or in any manner dispute what Icon has presented.

Any interaction should be to agree or disagree, and offer helpful input, or biblical correction..

Is the term "new and true exodus" supposed to be something of latest discovery?

No...I think it should be developed even more, and clarified....
For example....when we say Jesus is the "True Tabernacle"...that is not to say the first earthly physical tabernacle was somehow...FALSE.
It is just that OT. redemptive history finds it's purpose and fulfillment in Jesus.

This thread is not highly instructive and certainly well presented.

Did this sentence come out the way you wanted it to say?

However, the instruction of this thread is not "new"

Which parts in particular were you most familiar with before this discussion?

and some title of "New and True Exodus" is not really new and has always been true.

What do you mean?Some have said they never heard of such a thing.
What do you mean by the term?

So, I'm a bit confused about the term "new and true" being used.

Maybe if you offer your understanding it will clarify the confusion...

Again, that is not in any manner meant to disparage or demean the presentation, but I read trying to find something new, only to read agreement with pretty much all presented as having already taught in the past.

If your background is dispensational they would not link the events together in this way. They break everything apart...I do not think and can not remember seeing these ideas in my premill books.

The most extreme conservative or liberal teachers usually teach (in some manner at least) the exodus lead by Moses was a type of the journey and experience of many people, not just believers, the church, the Christ, but is used by many even outside the faith. The civil rights era was typically presented as such an exodus.

This thread is not one of many just using the term the way a high school english class might discuss things that are parallel to the Exodus account.
This is totally different.

Here is a bit of words about typology as used in the Scriptures that all must be cautioned and aware.

ok

All typology is nothing but a picture of what is real, and care must be taken in combining presentations of typology inappropriately.

Do you see evidence of this here?

For example: A series of crime scene photos may not represent the same crime or, if they do, may not represent the same aspects of the same crime. The OT typology may represent various aspects of either the same or a completely different reality.

Do you see any of this here?

Not all exodus events are types.

ok...are any that have been mentioned so far?

Not all types in the OT Israeli exodus are of the same reality. Some may be applicable to the Christ, some may be applicable to the believer, and some to the unsaved, and some to the worship and some.

..
Again...can you show some that are distinct?

What is and must be guarded, in a thread of this magnitude, is application to prophetic statements of the future.

Show what you mean...comment on sections you think do not fit in...

As typology is only a picture, and not a movie, it is important to keep the background in focus as well as the central figure.

You need to clarify this, I think the men quoted see it more like a movie, then isolated snapshots....that is more dispensational thought, for example in post 56 there is a list of verses...consider this one...

16 And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the Lord, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the Lord: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.

17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

For example: Here might be a comparison of picture and movie presentation of typology. Christ stated that the sign of Jonah was a type. The picture was three nights in the belly of the fish. Basically, that was all that the type was to portray. The movie version would be to include all that lead up to the event, and take into account what happened during and immediately following the fishy experience. That is not using typology appropriately. Typology is not a movie, it is not an allegory. One must be careful in assembling the typology together and not put a picture in a wrong grouping.

I am sorry but i do not agree with this at all..first off;
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

The men I am quoting were very careful and well studied.

The exodus contains typology, but the exodus was not a typology movie.
Too often, in "exodus" typology, movie version presentation is attempted. The journey itself becomes the story rather than the true focus of the typology.

This statement seems to be to miss what is being offered in this thread to a large extent...

The world does this movie presentation version by using the exodus as a journey from one estate to another (again the civil rights concern of the 60's).

That is not what this is about.

The journey of the believer may echo that of the Exodus, but the exodus was not the believer. We may be presented in a type, but the experience and circumstance of our journey is one who is endowed with the Holy Spirit. We are a better then Moses, for we do not visit a burning bush, climb a mountain, sit in the doorway of inquiry... to visit with God, but may humbly and boldly enter into His conversations with others to plead for our cause.

The True Exodus...is About Jesus...The TRUE ISRAEL...and all the elect..IN HIM.

 

[Iconoclast]

"agedman

New Exodus Theology" is nothing really new, but a revival of that which the typical Jews were expecting of the Messiah:

Sorry....this is not the same thing being discussed here.

 

[Iconoclast]

Agedman said;

The king that would release them from the burden of the oppressors,
The return of the glory days of the strength of David and the wonders of Solomon,
The construction of a vast new Temple complex consistent with that portrayed in the prophets,
The physical change of the land that it be released from the curse and blossom with great harvests,
The new presentation of the temple rituals that would bringing homage and tribute to the Messiah.​

In all these matters (and more) resided the thinking of the typical Jews, and one reason the disciples were baffled at Christ's statements of His death.

Such promises are still held by the Orthodox Jews and those who long for the Messiah repeated point to the same OT promises they consider will become a reality. Such promises are also inclusive in the premillennialism thinking, unlike all other perspectives.

When the King of King does return in full glory, they shall morn, and then also rejoice. For the promises made thousands of years ago in our perspective are often diminished with time, but from that of Heaven only enhanced by the anticipation.

What is also true is that the typical teaching ministry of the church has been so sensational oriented, has been so shallow, has been so fruitless, that the typical assembly participant thinks that the theology is "new."

But as the wisdom of Ecclesiastes, "There is nothing new under the sun..."

[/QUOTE]

Jewish dreams have nothing to do with the biblical teaching being offered here, once again, unless I am totally misreading these last posts, this is missing the teaching.

 

[Iconoclast]

It is in this regard that the prophetic theme of Messiah comes to the forefront. In the most intricate and marvelous fashion, the Old Testament scriptures weave together in Him all of the above concepts and motifs.

- If Adam was the first of God’s dwellings by virtue of bearing in himself the divine image and likeness, the conquering Seed pledged to Eve would be preeminently so. He would not only come into the world in connection with the Spirit’s presence (Isaiah 48:16), the Spirit would indwell Him in order to empower Him for His messianic work (Isaiah 11:1-5, 42:1-7, 59:15-21, 61:1-7).

- So also the nation of Israel later became the Lord’s “dwelling in the Spirit” (ref. again Exodus 29:45-46; Numbers 5:1-3, 35:34; also Haggai 2:4-5 and Isaiah 63:11), and that reality was to be reproduced in the One who is the true Israel (Isaiah 49:1-6).

- Abraham’s singular Seed would fulfill Israel’s calling, but He would do so as the Branch of David. In this role, and in fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant, the Branch was to build an everlasting house for Yahweh (cf. again 2 Samuel 7:1ff and Zechariah 6:9-15). The implication that arises from the prophetic convergence of these themes is profound: God was going to bring forth His Servant as a new Israel in order to recover and regather to Himself Adam’s fallen race. But, through this ingathering, the Isaianic Servant – who is equally the Davidic Branch – would also construct Yahweh’s everlasting sanctuary in the context of His own enthronement as the Melchizedekian king-priest.

 

[Iconoclast]

"agedman,

(What is also true is that the typical teaching ministry of the church has been so sensational oriented, has been so shallow, has been so fruitless, that the typical assembly participant thinks that the theology is "new.")

Sadly this in.large part this is true.Many could not bear up under a series of messages that explain these things in detail

 

[kyredneck]

The kingdom of Israel was never intended to fulfill the promise in Eden; its role was purely prophetic and preparatory.

"'Tis ordinarily said, that the Jews were a typical people, the whole divine economy toward them is doctrinal and instructive to us, not immediately or literally, but by way of Anagogy" - Henry Hammond

 

[kyredneck]

Moses and Aaron are Old Testament saints, and are most certainly in the 'better, that is, a heavenly country' (Hebrews 11:15). Their many sins are doubtless forgiven them by grace. Where I do agree is that Moses serves as a type of the Law, which cannot, of itself bring anyone into the true Promised land

Yes! The type holds true! Their sins were not reckoned unto them, and not only Moses and Aaron. Even after all the wickedness Israel had done in the wilderness after leaving Egypt (unbelief, disobedience, murmuring, idolatry, fornication, rebellion, etc.), and even with Balaam wanting so badly to curse Israel, God made Balaam to declare:

He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob; Neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: Jehovah his God is with him, And the shout of a king is among them. Nu 23:21
(Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin. Ro 4:8)

 

[Iconoclast]

From the time Israel departed Egypt the Spirit had resided in their midst (Haggai 2:4-5; Isaiah 63:11), and His presence affirmed Yahweh’s previous declaration that Israel was His elect son (Exodus 4:22). So it was with the new Israel: He, too, was openly attested to be the Son of God by the presence of the Spirit upon Him, and He, too, had gone into His time of testing in the wilderness armed with the Spirit’s presence and power. “The temptations of Jesus recapitulate, in his individual life as the Son of God, the temptations of the nation of Israel in their corporate life as the son of God… The temptation stories thus vindicate the declaration of the ‘voice from heaven’ heard directly after the baptism of Jesus, which immediately precedes the temptation narratives: ‘This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.’ By so doing Jesus gains the victory over Satan and makes it possible for his people to inherit the promises of God.” (New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Vol. 3)

Both Adam and Christ were called upon to fulfill their identity as man, but it is crucial to note that this humanness is preeminently spiritual. Both “Adams” were charged with meeting the obligation of their nature (namely, dominion in God’s name in the context of perfect communion with Him) in the power of the Spirit. What was only implied with the first man became explicit with the second: True man is man of the Spirit.

“The fact that Jesus was the Man of the Spirit is not merely a theological categorization; it was a flesh-and-blood reality. What was produced in him was fully realized human holiness. He was the incarnation of the blessed life of the covenant and of the kingdom-beatitudes which are its fruit (Mt. 5:1ff; cf. Ps. 1).” (Sinclair Ferguson, The Holy Spirit

So Luke recorded that Jesus, anointed with the Holy Spirit at His baptism and returning from His Spirit-enabled triumph over Satan in the wilderness, embarked upon His ministry as the tested Son of God, Last Adam, and True Israel in the power of the indwelling Spirit (3:21-4:21; cf. Isaiah 61:1-2 and 42:1-7). From that point forward, His work as Yahweh’s messianic Servant would be accomplished in direct association with the presence and power of the Spirit (ref. Matthew 12:1-32; Luke 5:17; John 6:53-63; Acts 10:34-38; also Matthew 8:14-17 with Isaiah 53:1ff).

It was upon this foundation of divine promise that Luke recorded the return of the seventy heralds of the kingdom, showing how their preparatory proclamation of the “in-breaking” of the kingdom – attested by demonstrations of the Spirit’s power (10:1-9) – signaled the impending overthrow of the god of this age and the establishment of the supreme and everlasting dominion of the Son of David (10:17-22). The victory of the Servant meant the “binding of the strong man”: No longer would he be able to keep the nations in darkness; the gospel of the glory of God in the face of Christ would soon be dawning upon the whole world of men (cf. Isaiah 9:1-7 with Luke 1:76-79, 11:15-22; John 12:27-32, 14:30-31; also Acts 1:4-8 with 14:11-16, 17:29-31; 2 Corinthians 4:1-6).

“For Luke, the whole of Jesus’ ministry following his baptism is exercised in the power of the messianic Spirit. He has been anointed to engage in a power-conflict. But in him the final year of Jubilee has now come; there is freedom (Lk. 4:18-29; cf. Lv. 25:8-55). The result is that his preaching has authority (Lk. 4:32), his word has exorcising and liberating power (Lk. 4:33-37), and his touch heals ‘all’ (Lk. 4:40). Nothing is outside of his dominion. The wonders he performs are accomplished in the energy and by the presence of the Holy Spirit (cf. Mt. 12:28). That is why they serve as signs of the coming messianic age in which the Spirit’s power will be fully manifested and all nature will be healed.” (Ferguson, The Holy Spirit)

 

[Iconoclast]

In every way, Pentecost represented fulfillment of divine promise.

- Jesus had spoken of it as the immediate goal of His redemptive work (cf. John 14:16-20, 16:7-16, 20:19-22 with Acts 1:1-8), as had John before Him (Matthew 3:11; Luke 3:16).

- But being the Isaianic forerunner, John had functioned as the revelatory and salvation-historical bridge between the times of promise and fulfillment. He was the last of God’s Old Covenant prophets, and he heralded the passing of the old order and the in-breaking of the eschatological kingdom. Thus, like Jesus after him, John’s proclamation only reaffirmed what the prophets had insisted upon centuries earlier: The coming Messianic kingdom involved the renewal of the created order and its restoration to God. That recovery had man as its focal point, and God would restore His image-son to Himself through the power and presence of His outpoured Spirit (ref. Isaiah 32:1-20, 59:20-21; Ezekiel 36:2237:28; Joel 2:23-32; Zechariah 4:1-10; cf. also Numbers 11:24-30).

- For their part, the prophets simply built upon the promise of restoration that originated with the protoevangelium in Eden and that God clarified and expanded in the succeeding generations (Genesis 3:15).

 

[Iconoclast]

G. K. Beale’s observations are helpful:

“Israel’s rejection of Jesus sealed their fate as a nation (as elaborated already in Matt. 23:29-38). What underscores the picture in Joel 2:30-31 as figurative for Israel’s final demise is the observation that the very same language was used earlier in Joel 2:10b to signify clearly the imminent destruction of Israel in the Old Testament epoch itself (‘the sun and the moon grow dark’; cf. the full cosmic conflagration imagery in Joel 2:1-5, 10a, c). Rather than saying that the Joel language is used symbolically in Acts 2, it may be better to say that it indicates the real beginning destruction of the old world, represented by Israel and her temple, which begins in the spiritual realm. That is, unbelieving Israel and the temple were judged to be spiritually condemned at the time of Jesus (e.g., Matt. 23:29-39) and Pentecost, and a generation later the destruction of her temple occurred as an expression of the earlier spiritual judgment. The consummated fulfillment of Joel 2 will express itself in the destruction of the entire physical cosmos, which the temple symbolized.” (The Temple and the Church’s Mission, emphasis added)

c) Peter’s inclusion of Joel 2:30-31 was likely intended to indicate the passing of the former order (including the city and temple as its epitomizing symbols; note esp. 2:40) even as he associated the outpouring of the Spirit with the inauguration of the “last days.” But taken together, these ideas imply that this consummative period initiated at Pentecost constitutes a new beginning. This, too, is in keeping with the prophets, for they spoke of the last days as heralding the introduction of a new age (cf. Isaiah 2:1-4; Micah 4:1-8), just as the Day of the Lord would bring comprehensive renewal and restoration (Joel 3:9-18; Zephaniah 3:1-20).

The Day of the Lord marks the passing of the former order, and so also the inauguration of the new age of eschatological renewal and the recovery of all things to God. In keeping with the promises of the prophets, this age of renewal is the age of the Spirit, being attested by the outpouring and indwelling of the Spirit to form a new people for God. The promise of the restoration of Israel is the promise of Israel’s fullness realized by the enthroned Son of David pouring out His Spirit upon all mankind. The Man of the Spirit, who is the Last Adam, has ushered in a new creation and become the fountainhead of a new humanity. In Him, as the True Israel, “Israel has become a third party with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing in the midst of the earth, whom the Lord of hosts has blessed, saying, ‘Blessed is Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance’” (ref. Isaiah 19:19-25).

Later, the nation of Israel was formally constituted the corporate covenant seed of Abraham through Yahweh’s great act of redemption. Circumcision continued as the sign of the covenant, but the covenant community was now further identified as the company of Yahweh’s redeemed (cf. Exodus 3:1-17, 6:1-8, 20:1-2). Accordingly, God made Israel’s redeemed status a permanent identity marker by instituting the annual Passover ordinance. The nation was to associate its “birth” with Yahweh’s redemption (Exodus 12:1-2) and, as His covenant people, was to be fastidious in observing the annual festival and communicating its meaning to successive generations (12:14-28). The intent of this prescription was that every Israelite would find it impossible to conceive of himself or his nation apart from the Lord’s redemption; Israel was an elect son born of Yahweh’s redeeming hand.
This Jew-Gentile distinction wasn’t without biblical basis, for the Scriptures everywhere distinguished between the two. The prophets had promised a global salvation flowing out of the presence and work of Yahweh’s Servant, but this involved the salvation of Israel and the nations. Though the Gentiles would be granted a share in Yahweh’s spiritual redemption, they would do so in distinction from the house of Israel (cf. for example Isaiah 11:1-12, 19:19-25, 49:1-6).

 

[Iconoclast]

At the heart of the resolution of the quandary is James’ interaction with the prophecy of Amos (15:13-18). The section James cited focuses on God’s promise to restore David’s fallen tabernacle and the purpose for that restoration.

- Like his prophetic counterparts, Amos spoke of the coming desolation of the two houses of Israel, and this implied the destruction of David’s throne and kingdom. Jeremiah added that David’s dynastic “house” was also to be thrown down by the severing of his royal line of descent (22:24-30).

- But desolation wasn’t Yahweh’s final word, for He had made a covenant with David in which He promised to build and establish David’s house, throne, and kingdom forever.

It was precisely this covenant oath that Amos had in mind. Yahweh had promised to restore David’s fallen “house,” and James regarded this promise as having been fulfilled in relation to Christ. Recalling that the covenant promise of a Davidic “house” looked first to a coming seed, the foundational point of fulfillment was Jesus’ resurrection and enthronement. God had raised up David’s dynastic “house” by raising David’s Son, and now that Son was continuing the work of restoring David’s house by building a house for Yahweh through His work of ingathering. Even as David’s house had consisted of the twelve tribes of Israel, the eschatological house of David’s covenant heir was now being constructed from a remnant of Israel together with men drawn from all the nations of the earth (cf. again Acts 1:1-8 and 2:17-18, 37-39 with Isaiah 11:10-12; 1 Peter 2:4-10).

 

[Iconoclast]

Paul’s conviction that the “Christ event” ushered in the substance of the eternal state is perhaps most conspicuous in his reference to the New Jerusalem (ref. Galatians 4:19-31). In this context he drew upon the Old Testament prophetic promise regarding Jerusalem’s restoration and exaltation as Yahweh’s final, everlasting sanctuary in His consummate kingdom (cf. Isaiah 2:1-4, 4:1-6, 24:1923, 27:1-13, 33:17-21, 52:1-10, 62:6-12, 66:19-23; also Jeremiah 30:17-22, 31:16, 33:10-16; Joel 3:13-21; Micah 4:1-8; Zechariah 14:16-21; etc.).

As the site God chose for His sanctuary under the Israelite kingdom, Jerusalem (with its “Zion” theology) came to represent sacred space: the designated place of divine-human interface where men encounter, commune with, worship and serve the living God. Israelite and Gentile alike were obligated to meet God at His dwelling place (1 Kings 8:41-43), and so it was no surprise that the prophets spoke of worship in the global, eschatological kingdom in terms of all the earth’s peoples coming up to Jerusalem to encounter the Lord, learn of Him and worship Him there (Isaiah 56:6-8, 66:19-23; Micah 4:1-8; also Zechariah 8:1-8, 18-23).

 

[Iconoclast]

In this Galatians context Paul drew specifically from Isaiah 54, a passage in which Zion (Jerusalem) is called upon to enlarge her dwelling place in view of the atoning self-offering of Yahweh’s Servant (53:1-10). As Yahweh’s covenant “wife,” Zion was to bear children for Him, but she became a harlot who bore only unfaithful children out of her own harlotry (cf. Ezekiel 16, 23; Hosea 1:1-2:13). Thus Yahweh stripped Zion of her children and sent her away (50:1), but He also promised to restore her to Himself and give her an abundance of children (ref. 49:14-21): In her restoration, the formerly barren Zion would bear more children for the Lord than she had when she was in her previous married state (54:1-3).

Zion’s restoration to bear a multitude of covenant children was to result from the work of the Lord’s Servant, and Paul recognized that this promise had been fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

- By virtue of Christ’s self-sacrifice, Yahweh was gathering to Himself a covenant household drawn from every tribe, tongue and people. Just as the prophets had declared, Jerusalem – sacred space – had been restored and was gathering in all the nations to worship and serve the living God.

- But this restored, eschatological “Zion” is spiritual; it is the “Jerusalem above” which bears spiritual children for God – children of promise, not of the flesh. In contrast, the physical city of Jerusalem is earthly and natural; it corresponds to Hagar and continues to bear children of the flesh appointed for slavery (Galatians 4:21-26).

Paul recognized that Isaiah’s prophecy of Jerusalem’s restoration in the eschatological kingdom had been fulfilled, and not in a physical recovery of the physical city in the land of Canaan, but in the recovery of sacred space in Christ which Zion represented all along. The New Jerusalem – focal point of the fulfilled kingdom of God – is already established and bearing her children.

 

[Iconoclast]

Aug 2, 2010 | Posted by Richard Barcellos | Hermeneutics, Historical Theology


1. We learn something about the incompleteness of the Old Testament. “The Old Testament can only leave men expectant, it cannot make them satisfied.” It is open-ended. It can’t stand on its own. It points us to the future. It needs a conclusion. Our Lord Jesus is that conclusion.

2. We learn something of the relationship between the Old and New Testaments. “The Old Testament predicts a pattern, the New Testament proclaims a fulfillment.”

3. We learn something of the function of the Exodus in the Bible. It sets the stage for the work of Christ.

4. We learn something of how God works in history. His past actions set the stage for future actions. This displays His sovereignty in history and that He is pointing history in a clear and definite direction. History has a goal – the glory of God displayed in what He does through His Son! History is Christo-telic!

5. We learn something about Jesus Christ.

He is greater than Moses, greater than Joshua, greater than the unblemished one-year old male lambs of the Passover, greater than the manna in the wilderness, greater than Israel (he past his test in the wilderness), and greater than all the events leading up to, in, and after the Exodus.

The Exodus under Moses saved people from earthly bondage, slavery, and the temporal wrath of God. The greater Exodus under Jesus saves people from spiritual bondage and slavery and the eternal wrath of God.

The Exodus under Moses saved people from sinful Egypt to sinful Canaan. The greater exodus under Jesus saves people from this sinful and sorrowful world to Immanuel’s land – the New Heaven and the New Earth, a world wherein dwells only righteousness.

6. We learn something about the differences between the Exodus under Moses and the Exodus under Christ.

One difference is that all were saved irrespective of faith in the Exodus under Moses; but in the Exodus under Christ, only those who apply the blood to their own souls through faith are saved.

But the greatest and most astonishingly ironic difference is this – in the first Exodus under Moses, God’s first-born son, Israel (Ex. 4:22), was spared judgment – instead, a lamb was slaughtered and the Egyptians’ first-born was killed; in the greater Exodus under Jesus, God’s first-born Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, becomes a curse and is judged and slaughtered instead of Israel or Egypt. Whereas God’s wrath terminated upon His people’s enemy – Egypt; at the cross, God’s wrath terminated upon His Son. Whereas the ancient people crushed an unblemished lamb to divert the wrath of God; God the Father crushed His Son to exhaust His wrath for those who believe.

The audio can be found here.


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About Richard Barcellos


Richard C. Barcellos, Ph.D., is pastor of Grace Reformed Baptist Church (www.grbcav.org), Palmdale, CA, and author of In Defense of the Decalogue: A Critique of New Covenant Theology, The Family Tree of Reformed Biblical Theology, and The Lord’s Supper as a Means of Grace: More than a Memory, from Christian Focus Publications.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Yes! The type holds true! Their sins were not reckoned unto them, and not only Moses and Aaron. Even after all the wickedness Israel had done in the wilderness after leaving Egypt (unbelief, disobedience, murmuring, idolatry, fornication, rebellion, etc.), and even with Balaam wanting so badly to curse Israel, God made Balaam to declare:

He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob; Neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: Jehovah his God is with him, And the shout of a king is among them. Nu 23:21
(Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin. Ro 4:8)

Hmmm. Are we talking of Israel after the flesh, of the children of Promise? "Behold the days are coming," says the LORD, "that I will punish all who are circumcised with the uncircumcised. Egypt, Judah, Edom, the people of Ammon, Moab and all who dwell in the farthest corners, who dwell in the wilderness. For all those nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart." Jer. 9:25-26.
This is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. Rom. 9:8.

 

[agedman]

Icon, I apologize for my poorly written post. Thank you for taking it without offense, for it was never meant to be other then both a commending of your work and also to question the "new" of the thinking.

One of the problems with the post(s) was not that of content, but my own frailty at recall. I'm at that point that when something is written, that unless I am the writer, remembering the details of the longer posts becomes more and more difficult.

But, the reading is also a valuable exercise, and the posts are certainly worthy.

 

[Iconoclast]

Icon, I apologize for my poorly written post. Thank you for taking it without offense, for it was never meant to be other then both a commending of your work and also to question the "new" of the thinking.

One of the problems with the post(s) was not that of content, but my own frailty at recall. I'm at that point that when something is written, that unless I am the writer, remembering the details of the longer posts becomes more and more difficult.

But, the reading is also a valuable exercise, and the posts are certainly worthy.

No problem brother....I thought it was as you describe, and I am doing similar things, lol
I am cherry picking from some solid study material and posting large portions for interested parties to use as study material.
It is a work in progress..I do not have all the answers, so I look for all kinds of input...
The opening links were from men who I would disagree with on several things.The value is taking a fresh look at the verses.

As time permits...each paragraph can be a small study or meditation...

 

[Iconoclast]

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Exodus: God with Man (part 4)
Posted: December 31st, 2017 | Author: Dr. Bob | Filed under: Sermons | Comments Off on Exodus: God with Man (part 4)
<“Exodus: The Tabernacle – God with Man (part 4)
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A Sermon by Dr. Bob Griffin, Teaching Elder at Sovereign Grace Church

I. TABERNACLE PRIESTHOOD
A. HIGH PRIEST
>>1. GARMENTS – HOLINESS (Ex 28:4, 36-37, 42; Ezek 28:13; Rev 21:19-20; Ps 132:9)
>>2. MINISTRY – WORK

B. CHRIST, OUR HIGH PRIEST
>>1. SACRIFICE – ATONEMENT (Heb 2:9; 10:12, 19-22)
>>2. MEDIATOR – INTERCESSION (Heb 5:1-5; 6:20; 7:22-27; 9:1-12, 24)

II. TABERNACLE SACRIFICES
A. GOD’S DEMANDS ON MAN
>>1. BURNT OFFERING – SURRENDER (Lev 1; Gen 8:20; Phil 2:8)
>>2. GRAIN OFFERING – LIVING SACRIFICE (Lev 2; Jn 4:34)
>>3. PEACE OFFERING – FELLOWSHIP (Lev 3; Eph 2:13-14)
>>4. SIN OFFERING – UNKNOWN SIN (Lev 4; Is 53:11; Heb 9:26)
>>5. TRESPASS OFFERING – KNOWN SIN (Lev 5; Heb 10:12)

B. MAN’S WAY TO APPROACH GOD – opposite
>>1. TRESPASS OFFERING (I Jn 2:2)
>>2. SIN OFFERING (II Cor 5:21)
>>3. PEACE OFFERING (I Jn1:3)
>>4. GRAIN/MEAL OFFERING (Rom 12:1)
>>5. BURNT OFFERING (Gal 2:20)

III. TABERNACLE TODAY
A. TEMPLE OF GOD
>>1. DWELLING PLACE – SUPERNATURAL (Ex 40:34)
>>2. MEETING PLACE FOR MAN – COMMUNION (Lev 26:11-12)

B. TEMPLES OF GOD
>>1. AS INDIVIDUALS – SPIRIT-FILLED (I Cor 6:15)
>>2. AS A CHURCH – SPIRIT-LED (I Cor 6:19-20; I Peter 2:9-10; Lk 24:27, 44-45)

 

[kyredneck]

Yes! The type holds true! Their sins were not reckoned unto them, and not only Moses and Aaron. Even after all the wickedness Israel had done in the wilderness after leaving Egypt (unbelief, disobedience, murmuring, idolatry, fornication, rebellion, etc.), and even with Balaam wanting so badly to curse Israel, God made Balaam to declare:

He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob; Neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: Jehovah his God is with him, And the shout of a king is among them. Nu 23:21
(Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin. Ro 4:8)

Hmmm. Are we talking of Israel after the flesh, of the children of Promise?

Did you miss "The type", second sentence? If you had to take a guess, considering the nature of this thread, who would 'Israel after the flesh' represent in the type?

(If you need a hint, see post #2)

 

[kyredneck]

Sovereign Grace Church
A Reformed Baptist Fellowship in Casper, Wyoming.

Doctor Bob's church?