A confessional family moves into an area where most churches are not confessional. They make friends with the people and in home bible study they make use of the biblical confession, commentary, or sermons....people who are believers respond positively to the sheep food....others in the church find out, and resist...not for biblical reasons but rather ignorance, and emotional defects......now what?
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Theological Differences in the Local Church
- Thread starter Reformed
- Start date
now suppose....the confessional persons find out if they travel an hour or more...they could find a group that is closer to their beliefs, however..the distance would present difficulties.
Do they continue in the local assembly and be used to bring biblical reformation? Or do they abandon the local assembly?
If the local church needs help ....should they throw in the towel drive the extra hour or two, to sit in a church that does not need help, so they would just sit and rubber stamp things?
:Which do you see as worst situation[humanly speaking],and why?
Which do you see as most promising?
1 ]Covenant theology.....finds himself in a dispensational church...
2]A 1689 person in an Arminian church
3] An Arminian wanders into a 1689 church
4] A dispensational person wanders into Ken Gentry's local assembly
5] An Amillienial person in a dispensational church...
6] antinomian in a confessional church...
Which do you see as most promising?
:
1 ]Covenant theology.....finds himself in a dispensational church...
2]A 1689 person in an Arminian church
3] An Arminian wanders into a 1689 church
4] A dispensational person wanders into Ken Gentry's local assembly
5] An Amillienial person in a dispensational church...
6] antinomian in a confessional church...
two people meeting in Jesus name...is not a Church. It is two Kingdom members meeting.
This is a response to your past few posts.
The onus really is on the couple that moved into the new area. If they select a church that is not in agreement with their theology they cannot readily expect that they will be able to change things. Even requesting a hearing with the pastors and elders may raise red flags. Perhaps time will become their ally and they will earn the trust of church leadership. After much prayer and preparation, perhaps the opportunity will present itself to discuss theological differences. So long as the church is not teaching rank heresy, my counsel to the new couple is to either a) embrace their new church home and serve God there as far as their conscience will allow ~or~ b) Make the long trek to a church of like faith.
Yes...Reformed.....it can get dicey.....you do not want to harm a true assembly on one hand....but ;
9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.
even the apostles came across some hard to call situations...much prayer indeed...
9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.
10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.
even the apostles came across some hard to call situations...much prayer indeed...
Paul had apostolic authority and he was in the business of setting up and establishing churches.
A Christian wandering into a Christian church?
Yes...it is always proper to note that distinction and we do not have that authority.....however I find it instructive that Diotrephes existed....and I think we have perhaps seen that personality in many a place in our day.
We cannot see the heart...but their actions and words sometimes give them away.
Yes...lol...these days it says one thing on the outside...then you wander in and its up for grabs what is going on in there.
It is quite a relief when you find an assembly following the scriptural model of a NT. Assembly.
I am still traveling often....sometimes it is shock and awe when you get inside..
I have heard of local churches that are ruled with a heavy hand. Praise God that I have not experienced that. But it would be short-sighted of us not to recognize cultural differences when moving from one area of the country to another. A Northerner moving to the deep South may encounter a different way of doing things and maybe even some guarded apprehension at a new church. I have no statistics to back this up but I think most churches are adverse to change.
Our situation - the Gospel church is 10 miles - 20 minutes drive away. The local church is Anglican. We are making friends in the church & seek to attend suitable services & occasions.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
If the kingdom of God is with you, how can two or more gathering in Jesus' name for prayer at McDonald's not be a church?
You know, if we are seeing any Christian assembly as different, then we are not paying attention to the myriad commandments to love... to love our God, to love our neighbor as ourselves, to love our enemies yada yada. I mean, have we become so jaded that we cannot live without negative energy, who cannot live in the realm of peace that Jesus announces, because the price of peace is non domination.
Because a local church or assembly has the offices of a church (pastor/elder/deacons); the ordinances of the church (baptism and Lord's Supper); and church discipline. Two believers are part of the universal church but they are not a manifestation of the local church (c.f. 1689 LBC 22.8).
That’s right....1689 LBC 22.8..... just in case ya care
Going to have to look up what John Owen of the Puritan Divines said about it.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
What if both meeting at McDonald's for prayer in Jesus' name are pastors? Doesn't a pastor, or teacher emerge no matter how small the church?
No. The markings of a church are not there. Local assemblies are meant for the visible corporate body of believers to meet for worship. Local assemblies have the markings I listed in post #35.
Matthew 18:15-20 is one of the most misunderstood passages in the entire New Testament. It is not about God being present when two or three are gathered in His name, as though God is not there if one or eleven are present. It is about church discipline and only church discipline:
Matthew 18:15-20 15 “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.
19 “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”
So, it is not about just gathering together, it is about gathering for the purpose of agreement in church discipline.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Jesus abolished the visible institutional church when he replaced the Old Covenant with the new. The visible institutional church came about with the rise of the monarchical bishops AD 100+. And remains responsible for the innocent bloodshed of non conformist Christians. Since that time continuing through the Reformation era.
I am concerned about what the New Testament states are the marks of visible local assembly, not Progressive Anabaptist-Mennonite views. You have some heavy lifting to do if you are going to contradict the pastoral epistles.