the unforgivable sin is very logical

[The Angel of the South]

Am I right that the unforgivable sin (why it's unforgivable) can be explained as a simple logical argument?

I have been taught that the unforgivable sin is for an unbeliever to deny Jesus Christ by resisting the conviction the Holy Spirit gives him. If you do this--resist your conviction to repent and receive Christ as Lord and Savior--then by definition your sin is not forgiven, because it won't be forgiven without Christ. It becomes seemingly a tautology: if you will not have your sin forgiven, your sin will not be forgiven. That's why the sin is called unforgivable: resisting the conviction to repent is a sin that leads to your sins not being forgiven.

And isn't it obviously a sin that only unbelievers can commit?

 

[HankD]

Am I right that the unforgivable sin (why it's unforgivable) can be explained as a simple logical argument?

I have been taught that the unforgivable sin is for an unbeliever to deny Jesus Christ by resisting the conviction the Holy Spirit gives him. If you do this--resist your conviction to repent and receive Christ as Lord and Savior--then by definition your sin is not forgiven, because it won't be forgiven without Christ. It becomes seemingly a tautology: if you will not have your sin forgiven, your sin will not be forgiven. That's why the sin is called unforgivable: resisting the conviction to repent it is a sin that leads to your sins not being forgiven.
.

Agreed - and there is no need to clutter it up with anything else.

 

[Yeshua1]

Am I right that the unforgivable sin (why it's unforgivable) can be explained as a simple logical argument?

I have been taught that the unforgivable sin is for an unbeliever to deny Jesus Christ by resisting the conviction the Holy Spirit gives him. If you do this--resist your conviction to repent and receive Christ as Lord and Savior--then by definition your sin is not forgiven, because it won't be forgiven without Christ. It becomes seemingly a tautology: if you will not have your sin forgiven, your sin will not be forgiven. That's why the sin is called unforgivable: resisting the conviction to repent is a sin that leads to your sins not being forgiven.

And isn't it obviously a sin that only unbelievers can commit?

This only happened to the Pharisees themselves, as they denied Jesus as being Son of god/Messiah while he was right there in their midst!

 

[The Angel of the South]

This only happened to the Pharisees themselves, as they denied Jesus as being Son of god/Messiah while he was right there in their midst!

Eh? Are you saying that the unforgivable sin, resisting the conviction to repent and accept Christ (thereby denying Him), could happen only while He was physically present, as with the Pharisees?

Consider the logic of my above post. If a person has denied Christ, how is their sin supposed to be forgiven? Why would this denial not be something anyone can make since the time of Christ's ministry?

 

[Yeshua1]

Eh? Are you saying that the unforgivable sin, resisting the conviction to repent and accept Christ (thereby denying Him), could happen only while He was physically present, as with the Pharisees?

Consider the logic of my above post. If a person has denied Christ, how is their sin supposed to be forgiven? Why would this denial not be something anyone can make since the time of Christ's ministry?

That specific Sin only was applied to the Pharisees,a s that was a very unique situation!

 

[HankD]

This only happened to the Pharisees themselves, as they denied Jesus as being Son of god/Messiah while he was right there in their midst!

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

The Spirit of God was telling them "This is HE".

They were responding with
Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

If one stops saying this and then believes that - This is He - that one is then saved.

 

[The Angel of the South]

The only "problem" is in the nuances of the word "unforgivable." The sin is called "unforgivable" because it leads to a person's sin not being forgiven. It is the sin that prevents forgiveness. Or, refusing to receive forgiveness is unforgivable. If "refusing to receive forgiveness" does not perfectly fit a dictionary definition of "unforgivable," it's close and we would be starting to give possibly unnecessary consideration to the nuances of a word. (I'm good at that, for better or worse, because I was an English major and particularly good at dissecting words.)

 

[Yeshua1]

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

The Spirit of God was telling them "This is HE".

They were responding with
Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.

If one stops saying this and then believes that - This is He - that one is then saved.

Yes, as they had jesus right there, and denied Him in the flesh and by sight!

 

[HankD]

Yes, as they had jesus right there, and denied Him in the flesh and by sight!

OK, similar today

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

 

[The Angel of the South]

Yes, as they had jesus right there, and denied Him in the flesh and by sight!

And if someone living today denies Jesus in the spirit? That's all they can do now, since He is no longer physically present but only spiritually present. Is denying him spiritually not still denying Him?

 

[Yeshua1]

And if someone living today denies Jesus in the spirit? That's all they can do now, since He is no longer physically present but only spiritually present. Is denying him spiritually not still denying Him?

yes, but the Pharisees specific Sin was to deny him while they could see and hear Him directly!

 

[TCassidy]

First you have to actually understand what the unforgivable sin is, then you will be able to see the obvious answer.

 

[HankD]

The pharisees did attribute the works of God to the Devil.

Similar sins are possible today such as accusing believing brethren of demonic works.
Very serious. Very grave consequences.

However if any pharisee (or person today) rethinks this idea and changes one's mind then there is deliverance.

My opinion. There are differences of opinion in this area.

 

[Yeshua1]

The pharisees did attribute the works of God to the Devil.

Similar sins are possible today such as accusing believing brethren of demonic works.
Very serious. Very grave consequences.

However if any pharisee (or person today) rethinks this idea and changes one's mind then there is deliverance.

My opinion. There are differences of opinion in this area.

What about those who claim to be using the Spirit, but are teaching errors and heresies in theology, such as happens a lot in certain Charsamatic circles?

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I had been taught in church that the unforgivable sin is to confuse Satan for the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit for Satan.

If you really screw this up you will never go near the Living God, thinking He is obviously the evil one. This type of confusion in fact happened to the Pharisees Jesus was talking to when He explained the unforgivable sin.

 

[HankD]

What about those who claim to be using the Spirit, but are teaching errors and heresies in theology, such as happens a lot in certain Charsamatic circles?

God will be their judge.
In God's court of law ignorance can be an excuse (to an extent).

Remember how Abraham gave his wife to Abimelech but God spared Abimelech because Abraham had deceived him. Genesis 20.

 

[Yeshua1]

God will be their judge.
In God's court of law ignorance can be an excuse (to an extent).

Remember how Abraham gave his wife to Abimelech but God spared Abimelech because Abraham had deceived him. Genesis 20.

I was speaking mainly to the pastors and teachers so called who are knowingly teaching heresy and false doctrines in order to build up their kingdom, and not the one of the Lord jesus!

 

[HankD]

I was speaking mainly to the pastors and teachers so called who are knowingly teaching heresy and false doctrines in order to build up their kingdom, and not the one of the Lord jesus!

I don't believe that qualifies as the unpardonable sin.

Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Actually the main verb here is aorist not future as indicated in the KJV - in the NKJV :
Mark 3:29 "but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation" --
In the NIV
NIV Mark 3:29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

IMO the KJV is the best rendering especially because it gives hope "is in danger of eternal damnation". There needs to be a pleading with the father in the case of this "slander" βλασφημέω All lexicons - "slander" to say something evil to bring hurt or defamation.

So we should be careful the words proceeding out of our mouths against our brethren indwelt of the Holy Ghost.
Forgive quickly - yet it is God's final prerogative.

If anyone is convicted of this sin the KJV rendering gives hope "in danger of", so not a done deal.
Yes, I was convicted of this at one time. There is always hope with our God.

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't believe that qualifies as the unpardonable sin.

Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Actually the main verb here is aorist not future as indicated in the KJV - in the NKJV :
Mark 3:29 "but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation" --
In the NIV
NIV Mark 3:29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

IMO the KJV is the best rendering especially because it gives hope "is in danger of eternal damnation". There needs to be a pleading with the father in the case of this "slander" βλασφημέω All lexicons - "slander" to say something evil to bring hurt or defamation.

So we should be careful the words proceeding out of our mouths against our brethren indwelt of the Holy Ghost.
Forgive quickly - yet it is God's final prerogative.

If anyone is convicted of this sin the KJV rendering gives hope "in danger of", so not a done deal.
Yes, I was convicted of this at one time. There is always hope with our God.

I am referencing those who are not saved, but are wolves in sheeps clothing who are fleecing the flock! The Copelands,Hagins, Prices of the world...

 

[TCassidy]

The unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by seeing, in person, the miracles of Christ performed publicly during His earthly ministry, and attributing them to the power of Satan.

As nobody alive now was alive to personally see the miracles of Christ performed during His earthly ministry, there is no more "unpardonable sin."