The Gift Ministries II

[jeremiah1five]

In the first installment entitled "The Gift Ministries," I introduced through Scripture the Five-Fold Ministry of Christ in His people and explained that these five gift ministries are the expression of the Life of Christ in and to His people - the Church. I laid out through Scripture that Christ Himself holds and commands in these five gift ministries, and that the apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher are not only the expression of Christ Himself to His people but that to deny any of these personal expressions of Christ in, to, and for His people is squarely to deny Christ.

Now, let's look and see exactly, through the Scripture, to whom Christ desires to express Himself in these offices.
First, Paul writes...

Ephesians 4:11 (KJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

And now we will see TO WHOM Christ desires to manifest Himself in these five Gift Ministries along with the other spiritual gifts graced upon the holy people of God:

Ephesians 4:12 (KJV)
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Christ desires to manifest Himself TO and FOR His people, and that these five offices are for the 'perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.
That's it in a nut-shell, if you will.

It does not say, "for the perfecting of the world, for the work of the world, for the edifying of the world."
These gift ministries and the other spiritual gifts which are also a manifestation of the Life of Christ in His people are TO and FOR the Covenant people of God. That's what it says. Unequivocally it says that. There is no mistaking it.

God has no Covenant with the world. Christ didn't give these five Gift Ministries to the world. Christ didn't give His Holy Spirit to the world. He gave Him to us, His people, The spiritual gifts are also a manifestation of the Life of Christ in is people. And the chosen way in which Christ desired to express Himself is through these Gift Ministries and through the spiritual gifts described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12-14 and Romans 12 (and elsewhere).

The Scripture is given of God TO and FOR His Covenant people ONLY. The Holy Spirit is given of God TO and FOR His Covenant people ONLY. The Gift Ministries is given of God TO and FOR His Covenant people ONLY. The spiritual gifts are given of God TO and FOR His Covenant people ONLY. All the Promises God made to the children of Israel and the Church (Completed Judaism) is given of God TO and FOR His Covenant people ONLY. And God has given NOTHING to the world. God has no Covenant with the world. Jesus Christ, as High Priest, right before He is to sacrifice Himself TO and FOR God at a time when a Holy of Holies prayer should be offered for the world DOESN'T even pray for the world, and so the world is prayer-less. John 17:9.

Proverbs 20:27 (KJV)
27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

Matthew 5:15 (KJV)
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house (of God.)

It's all about God and His people. From everlasting to everlasting THIS is what it is all about.

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Revmitchell]

to deny any of these personal expressions of Christ in, to, and for His people is squarely to deny Christ.

You have not proven this statement, it is an absurd statement, and it appears that it has been created for the sole purpose of trying to find some way to condemn those with whom you disagree. In order to accomplish your goal you have engaged in the illogical fallacy known as the "casual fallacy". The lack of ability to handle scripture very well is common among charismatics because what you want to be true can only be reached by eisegesis.

God gave those gifts so that the church would be equipped to reach the lost. No part of scripture says that Christ is expressed through those gifts.

However, scripture does express how the God is expressed through us and even then the ultimate goal is the salvation of the lost.

John 17:21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Further, the office of Apostle has some very strict qualifications and with good reason.

ompany of persons was in all about 120) and said,
Act 1:16 “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
Act 1:17 For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.”
Act 1:18 (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
Act 1:20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’
Act 1:21 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.”

Brother, you hermenuetical skills are very weak and appear to be self serving. I suggest you submit yourself to some discipleship to a good pastor who can train you in the proper interpretation of scripture.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You have not proven this statement, it is an absurd statement, and it appears that it has been created for the sole purpose of trying to find some way to condemn those with whom you disagree. In order to accomplish your goal you have engaged in the illogical fallacy known as the "casual fallacy". The lack of ability to handle scripture very well is common among charismatics because what you want to be true can only be reached by eisegesis.

God gave those gifts so that the church would be equipped to reach the lost. No part of scripture says that Christ is expressed through those gifts.

However, scripture does express how the God is expressed through us and even then the ultimate goal is the salvation of the lost.

John 17:21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Further, the office of Apostle has some very strict qualifications and with good reason.

([c]ompany of persons was in all about 120) and said,
Act 1:16 “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
Act 1:17 For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.”
Act 1:18 (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
Act 1:20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’
Act 1:21 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.”

Brother, you hermenuetical skills are very weak and appear to be self serving. I suggest you submit yourself to some discipleship to a good pastor who can train you in the proper interpretation of scripture.

RESPONSE: Revmitchell,
I'm not a Charismatic. And as far as posting this and the other I don't know who's here so how can I do so with the intent to 'condemn?'
Besides, it is the Holy Spirit WITHIN the believer that will either excuse or condemn them, not me.
So, that's what it is called? "Casual fallacy?" Is there such a thing as formal fallacy? I know. They're called LIES, right?
Boy, hermeneutics can be so dis-honest and confusing.
Confusion is not of God, Revmitchell, you know that. All these terminologies to call a word something beyond what God the Holy Spirit has purposed. I prefer a more honest approach, one that doesn't assuage the conscience, like "You liar!"
I would have to say that calling the Holy Spirit a liar is unchristian, a contradiction to one's profession of Christ. There, now that is more honest, more succinct, more direct. You see, you call Christ a liar when you accuse me of "eisegesis" because you don't know that I spent my study under His anointing 16 hours a day every day for one year, and every time hard to read the words of my Bible through the hot tears constantly running down my face - and yes - there was constant fasting - whole fasting, so under His direct tutelage and anointing you're saying that He the Spirit of Truth put lies into me or allowed me to walk away from Him in study with lies provided simply in the vanity of my mind and leaning on my own understanding.

QUOTE: "God gave those gifts so that the church would be equipped to reach the lost. No part of scripture says that Christ is expressed through those gifts.

However, scripture does express how the God is expressed through us and even then the ultimate goal is the salvation of the lost."​

IN EVERY INSTANCE the "lost" always refer to God's Elect. We were contemplated in the Mind of God in Trinity BEFORE He created anything and when He blew His Elect into the loins of man/Adam when He animated man/Adam we were in a sense "lost." The word can also mean "mis-placed," so, yes, we were "mis-placed" when God did that for we were no longer in Trinity with Him, safe, secure, in direct contact with Him, but in un-glorified dirt!

Let me ask you if it is NOT Christ who is manifested in the spiritual gifts, WHO is? There are only two ways - life and death. I know the JW's call Christians "devil's" and "demons" because of the Holy Spirit in their lives, but coming from a registered Reverend? You are in the registry, right?

And if it is Christ manifested in these gifts - not an impersonal force, or power, BUT HIM! God Almighty. Yahweh!
He will not leave us "comfortless," and

John 14:17 (KJV)
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Why send Christians "to the world" to preach Jesus IF THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE HIM?

Did you get that? The world CANNOT receive Him (the Spirit of Truth - God).

QUOTE: Further, the office of Apostle has some very strict qualifications and with good reason.

([c]ompany of persons was in all about 120) and said,
Act 1:16 “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
Act 1:17 For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.”
Act 1:18 (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
Act 1:20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’
Act 1:21 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.”
RESPONSE: The event that took place in Acts 1:15-26 took place within a ten-day window between the Ascension of Jesus and the Advent of the Holy Spirit. From the resurrection of Jesus from the dead to the Ascension was 40 days.
The Holy Spirit did not arrive until Acts 2, or after what Peter did in Acts 1:15-26. So, Peter was in the flesh, being led of his own understanding and in the vanity of his own mind. Second, God is the One that baptizes into the Body of Christ and places a believer as apostle, not man:
1 Corinthians 12:18 (KJV) But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
...and since Jesus was on the planet for forty days before He ascended, if He wanted to appoint a replacement for Judas He would have done it then as He did when He appointed the twelve (Lk. 6:12-13).
Another thing...the office of apostle is a spiritual office, unlike that of "deacon" which is a natural office. In verse 22 Peter describes a natural qualification of "beginning from the baptism of John until the day He [Jesus] was taken up" for a spiritual office?
And still another thing...everywhere in the gospels where Judas is mentioned, the Holy Spirit identifies him as "being among the twelve," but Mattias as being "with the eleven." And this is very significant. Very.
And still another thing....Judas "held the bag" [was treasurer], so why do you and others ignore the possibility that Matthias was merely being replaced as treasurer?
And still another thing... Who did Peter replace James with (Acts 12) when he was killed? And where is the person described in Scripture?

No, no, Revmitchell. Peter was in disobedience to His Master. Jesus instructed and commanded them to go to Jerusalem and tarry "[WAIT] UNITL they were endued with power from on high" (the Holy Spirit in Acts 2.).
​

Luke 24:49 (KJV)
49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

He didn't wait.

To teach one sits in the Hebrew religion, to stand means to 'officiate'

Peter in the flesh and without the guidance Jesus said the Holy Spirit would give His people:

John 16:13 (KJV)
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 16:7 (KJV)
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

And Jesus had not departed yet, and thus, He did not send the Spirit [to guide Peter in Acts 1:15-26] until the Holy Spirit arrived in Acts 2.

No, Revmitchell, what you believe is text-book. What you hold is error. I cannot be any more precise.

 

[Yeshua1]

RESPONSE: Revmitchell,
I'm not a Charismatic. And as far as posting this and the other I don't know who's here so how can I do so with the intent to 'condemn?'
Besides, it is the Holy Spirit WITHIN the believer that will either excuse or condemn them, not me.
So, that's what it is called? "Casual fallacy?" Is there such a thing as formal fallacy? I know. They're called LIES, right?
Boy, hermeneutics can be so dis-honest and confusing.
Confusion is not of God, Revmitchell, you know that. All these terminologies to call a word something beyond what God the Holy Spirit has purposed. I prefer a more honest approach, one that doesn't assuage the conscience, like "You liar!"
I would have to say that calling the Holy Spirit a liar is unchristian, a contradiction to one's profession of Christ. There, now that is more honest, more succinct, more direct. You see, you call Christ a liar when you accuse me of "eisegesis" because you don't know that I spent my study under His anointing 16 hours a day every day for one year, and every time hard to read the words of my Bible through the hot tears constantly running down my face - and yes - there was constant fasting - whole fasting, so under His direct tutelage and anointing you're saying that He the Spirit of Truth put lies into me or allowed me to walk away from Him in study with lies provided simply in the vanity of my mind and leaning on my own understanding.

QUOTE: "God gave those gifts so that the church would be equipped to reach the lost. No part of scripture says that Christ is expressed through those gifts.

However, scripture does express how the God is expressed through us and even then the ultimate goal is the salvation of the lost."​

IN EVERY INSTANCE the "lost" always refer to God's Elect. We were contemplated in the Mind of God in Trinity BEFORE He created anything and when He blew His Elect into the loins of man/Adam when He animated man/Adam we were in a sense "lost." The word can also mean "mis-placed," so, yes, we were "mis-placed" when God did that for we were no longer in Trinity with Him, safe, secure, in direct contact with Him, but in un-glorified dirt!

Let me ask you if it is NOT Christ who is manifested in the spiritual gifts, WHO is? There are only two ways - life and death. I know the JW's call Christians "devil's" and "demons" because of the Holy Spirit in their lives, but coming from a registered Reverend? You are in the registry, right?

And if it is Christ manifested in these gifts - not an impersonal force, or power, BUT HIM! God Almighty. Yahweh!
He will not leave us "comfortless," and

John 14:17 (KJV)
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Why send Christians "to the world" to preach Jesus IF THE WORLD CANNOT RECEIVE HIM?

Did you get that? The world CANNOT receive Him (the Spirit of Truth - God).

QUOTE: Further, the office of Apostle has some very strict qualifications and with good reason.

([c]ompany of persons was in all about 120) and said,
Act 1:16 “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
Act 1:17 For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.”
Act 1:18 (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
Act 1:20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’
Act 1:21 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.”
RESPONSE: The event that took place in Acts 1:15-26 took place within a ten-day window between the Ascension of Jesus and the Advent of the Holy Spirit. From the resurrection of Jesus from the dead to the Ascension was 40 days.
The Holy Spirit did not arrive until Acts 2, or after what Peter did in Acts 1:15-26. So, Peter was in the flesh, being led of his own understanding and in the vanity of his own mind. Second, God is the One that baptizes into the Body of Christ and places a believer as apostle, not man:
1 Corinthians 12:18 (KJV) But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
...and since Jesus was on the planet for forty days before He ascended, if He wanted to appoint a replacement for Judas He would have done it then as He did when He appointed the twelve (Lk. 6:12-13).
Another thing...the office of apostle is a spiritual office, unlike that of "deacon" which is a natural office. In verse 22 Peter describes a natural qualification of "beginning from the baptism of John until the day He [Jesus] was taken up" for a spiritual office?
And still another thing...everywhere in the gospels where Judas is mentioned, the Holy Spirit identifies him as "being among the twelve," but Mattias as being "with the eleven." And this is very significant. Very.
And still another thing....Judas "held the bag" [was treasurer], so why do you and others ignore the possibility that Matthias was merely being replaced as treasurer?
And still another thing... Who did Peter replace James with (Acts 12) when he was killed? And where is the person described in Scripture?

No, no, Revmitchell. Peter was in disobedience to His Master. Jesus instructed and commanded them to go to Jerusalem and tarry "[WAIT] UNITL they were endued with power from on high" (the Holy Spirit in Acts 2.).
​

Luke 24:49 (KJV)
49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

He didn't wait.

To teach one sits in the Hebrew religion, to stand means to 'officiate'

Peter in the flesh and without the guidance Jesus said the Holy Spirit would give His people:

John 16:13 (KJV)
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 16:7 (KJV)
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

And Jesus had not departed yet, and thus, He did not send the Spirit [to guide Peter in Acts 1:15-26] until the Holy Spirit arrived in Acts 2.

No, Revmitchell, what you believe is text-book. What you hold is error. I cannot be any more precise.

What is this trinity that we were in the mind of stuff? And do you hold to odern day Apostles and prophets in the church?

 

[Revmitchell]

RESPONSE: Revmitchell,

Boy, hermeneutics can be so dis-honest and confusing.

Either you do not know what it is or you do not like it because it holds you to the standard of the context of scripture.

 

[Yeshua1]

In the first installment entitled "The Gift Ministries," I introduced through Scripture the Five-Fold Ministry of Christ in His people and explained that these five gift ministries are the expression of the Life of Christ in and to His people - the Church. I laid out through Scripture that Christ Himself holds and commands in these five gift ministries, and that the apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher are not only the expression of Christ Himself to His people but that to deny any of these personal expressions of Christ in, to, and for His people is squarely to deny Christ.

Now, let's look and see exactly, through the Scripture, to whom Christ desires to express Himself in these offices.
First, Paul writes...

Ephesians 4:11 (KJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

And now we will see TO WHOM Christ desires to manifest Himself in these five Gift Ministries along with the other spiritual gifts graced upon the holy people of God:

Ephesians 4:12 (KJV)
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Christ desires to manifest Himself TO and FOR His people, and that these five offices are for the 'perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.
That's it in a nut-shell, if you will.

It does not say, "for the perfecting of the world, for the work of the world, for the edifying of the world."
These gift ministries and the other spiritual gifts which are also a manifestation of the Life of Christ in His people are TO and FOR the Covenant people of God. That's what it says. Unequivocally it says that. There is no mistaking it.

God has no Covenant with the world. Christ didn't give these five Gift Ministries to the world. Christ didn't give His Holy Spirit to the world. He gave Him to us, His people, The spiritual gifts are also a manifestation of the Life of Christ in is people. And the chosen way in which Christ desired to express Himself is through these Gift Ministries and through the spiritual gifts described by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12-14 and Romans 12 (and elsewhere).

The Scripture is given of God TO and FOR His Covenant people ONLY. The Holy Spirit is given of God TO and FOR His Covenant people ONLY. The Gift Ministries is given of God TO and FOR His Covenant people ONLY. The spiritual gifts are given of God TO and FOR His Covenant people ONLY. All the Promises God made to the children of Israel and the Church (Completed Judaism) is given of God TO and FOR His Covenant people ONLY. And God has given NOTHING to the world. God has no Covenant with the world. Jesus Christ, as High Priest, right before He is to sacrifice Himself TO and FOR God at a time when a Holy of Holies prayer should be offered for the world DOESN'T even pray for the world, and so the world is prayer-less. John 17:9.

Proverbs 20:27 (KJV)
27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

Matthew 5:15 (KJV)
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house (of God.)

It's all about God and His people. From everlasting to everlasting THIS is what it is all about.

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Scriptures themselves would deny that the office of either the Prophet pr the Apostle extended to after after the Apostolic Age!

 

[jeremiah1five]

Either you do not know what it is or you do not like it because it holds you to the standard of the context of scripture.

I prefer the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.
I'm not into credentials, degrees, and letters of commendations. Those are instruments of the world.
I prefer the old-fashioned way:

Luke 3:1-2 (KJV)
1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,
2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

One Caesar
One Governor
Three Tetrarchs
Two High Priests.

Men of degrees, and of letters and credentials, men of authorty....

But the Word of God didn't come to them.
The Word of God came to John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

That's where I hail from.

The wilderness.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You have not proven this statement, it is an absurd statement, and it appears that it has been created for the sole purpose of trying to find some way to condemn those with whom you disagree. In order to accomplish your goal you have engaged in the illogical fallacy known as the "casual fallacy". The lack of ability to handle scripture very well is common among charismatics because what you want to be true can only be reached by eisegesis.

God gave those gifts so that the church would be equipped to reach the lost. No part of scripture says that Christ is expressed through those gifts.

However, scripture does express how the God is expressed through us and even then the ultimate goal is the salvation of the lost.

John 17:21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Further, the office of Apostle has some very strict qualifications and with good reason.

ompany of persons was in all about 120) and said,
Act 1:16 “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
Act 1:17 For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.”
Act 1:18 (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
Act 1:20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms, “‘May his camp become desolate, and let there be no one to dwell in it’; and “‘Let another take his office.’
Act 1:21 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.”

Brother, you hermenuetical skills are very weak and appear to be self serving. I suggest you submit yourself to some discipleship to a good pastor who can train you in the proper interpretation of scripture.

The Scripture reveal it, I have found it, and I have shared it for my brethren.
To just say "I disagree" is a weak and non-response. I've taken the TIME to post this from scratch.
And all you can say is " haven't proved anything?"

 

[jeremiah1five]

What is this trinity that we were in the mind of stuff? And do you hold to [m]odern day Apostles and prophets in the church?

What God began on the Day of Pentecost with the Advent of the Person of the Holy Spirit IN His people is still happening today. The Holy Spirit expresses Himself in the spiritual gifts and the Gift Ministries of Ephesians 4:11.
Those who reject the apostle today reject the Life of Christ in His people for the Holy Spirit expresses Himself through each other - and that means people in Covenant with God.

Apostle is one expression of Christ.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Scriptures themselves would deny that the office of either the Prophet pr the Apostle extended to after after the Apostolic Age!

Post the Scripture.

 

[HankD]

The fruit of the Spirit makes for good discernment as to Who's Who in the Church.

Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

And then there is obedience to the Word:
2 Timothy 2
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The fruit of the Spirit makes for good discernment as to Who's Who in the Church.

Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

And then there is obedience to the Word:
2 Timothy 2
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

1 John 4:1 (KJV)
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Hello HankD.
Galatians 5 is helpful, but it is not the only criteria as you may well know in determining who is brethren and who is not.

I knew a man above fourteen years ago (more like 19 years ago -it just sounds cool) who exhibited ALL these characteristics but he was not saved. He was pastoring a small fellowship that appeared to be Biblical but once inside there was no witness, the teaching I immediately recognized as heretical at best, and (w)reckless at most, and other factors I discerned through the Word of God within me.

I was really blown away about this man's "spirit" (the unsaved have no human spirit but only soul and body - dichotomy.)

At any rate, we are to JUDGE who is and who is NOT of God. We cannot walk around calling those we do not know well "brother" or "sister" for if unsaved and we have not rightly divided and judged the person we can be joining Christ to a harlot.

I make sure before I call anyone "brethren" we have the same Father.

Capeesh?

Isaiah 5:20 (KJV)
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

(Woe means grief. It doesn't mean "eternal damnation" or the like.)
Thanks for stopping by this fine, glorious morning.

 

[HankD]

1 John 4:1 (KJV)
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Hello HankD.
Galatians 5 is helpful, but it is not the only criteria as you may well know in determining who is brethren and who is not.

Thanks for stopping by this fine, glorious morning.

You're welcome.

AOBTW, I didn't use the word brethren in determining WHETHER they are brethren.

A Who's Who book (e.g. Who's Who in America) is just that underline in America.

Note I said: The fruit of the Spirit makes for good discernment as to Who's Who in the Church not whether they are brethren or not

Any "prophet" would have known that.

 

[Yeshua1]

I prefer the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.
I'm not into credentials, degrees, and letters of commendations. Those are instruments of the world.
I prefer the old-fashioned way:

Luke 3:1-2 (KJV)
1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,
2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

One Caesar
One Governor
Three Tetrarchs
Two High Priests.

Men of degrees, and of letters and credentials, men of authorty....

But the Word of God didn't come to them.
The Word of God came to John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.

That's where I hail from.

The wilderness.

God gave to us men who were gifted by him to preach/teach/expound on the scriptures also though!

 

[jeremiah1five]

You're welcome.

AOBTW, I didn't use the word brethren in determining WHETHER they are brethren.

A Who's Who book (e.g. Who's Who in America) is just that underline in America.

Note I said: The fruit of the Spirit makes for good discernment as to Who's Who in the Church not whether they are brethren or not

Any "prophet" would have known that.

I considered that. But I went further.
Even knowing who possesses what call, or spiritual gift among the brethren in a particular fellowship/church.
A prophet DOES know that.
But there are some things they do not know - a great many things I'm sure - which is where brethren come in to shore up their weakness as his/her strengths shore up (support) theirs.

 

[Yeshua1]

Post the Scripture.

Had to be eyewitnesses to Jesus, as either in His ministry while on earth, saw Him as the risen Lord as paul didi! Don't thionk can claim that for today!

 

[jeremiah1five]

God gave to us men who were gifted by him to preach/teach/expound on the scriptures also though!

And sometimes even the mature can learn from babes.
I know I do.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Had to be eyewitnesses to Jesus, as either in His ministry while on earth, saw Him as the risen Lord as paul didi! Don't thionk can claim that for today!

So, as Peter, you place a natural qualification to a spiritual office/calling? That of seeing with the eyes the Lord.

 

[Yeshua1]

What God began on the Day of Pentecost with the Advent of the Person of the Holy Spirit IN His people is still happening today. The Holy Spirit expresses Himself in the spiritual gifts and the Gift Ministries of Ephesians 4:11.
Those who reject the apostle today reject the Life of Christ in His people for the Holy Spirit expresses Himself through each other - and that means people in Covenant with God.

Apostle is one expression of Christ.

The office of Apostles /prophets are no longer in operation in the church!

 

[Yeshua1]

And sometimes even the mature can learn from babes.
I know I do.

I do not see those such as Augustine/calvin and Spurgeon for example as being babes in Christ!