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The merit of believing a truth.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The notion that one merits the truth one believes is a false belief.
    For example the simple truth 1 + 1 = 2. Truth believed does not cause the person to merit it.
     
  2. Gup20

    Gup20 Active Member

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    Forgive me, but I'm not following. What point are you trying to make? Are you saying that Truth is independent of the merit of the person speaking, or are you saying that the act of believing a truth doesn't force the person to deserve it?

    When merit is used as a verb it's meaning is "to deserve or be worthy of."

    Are you saying that the notion that a person deserves what they believe of themselves is a false notion? Are you saying that just because you believe the truth doesn't mean you are worthy of believing the truth?

    At any rate, what is the point of this exercise? In the context of the Calvinism vs Arminianism debate do you mean that, just because someone believes the gospel doesn't mean they are regenerated?
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Having knowledge has merit. Being educated versus not being educated. Only when something is believed does that information become one's knowledge.

    Now believing a thing does not make a thing true.

    Now there are some who think believing a thing makes one merit the thing believed. Such as eternal life by believing on Jesus (John 6:47).

    There is a difference between a thing deserved and not deserved. Some think, for example, by Abraham believing God that by believing God he merited the righeousness. (A Jewish view.) But what is not understood, is righeousness is not earned by anything except being righteous.

    Romans 4:1-5.

    That is what is behind my comment.
     
  4. Gup20

    Gup20 Active Member

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    Romans 4 and Galatians 3 are very similar. Both speak to the righteousness of faith found in Abraham. Both speak to the instituting of God's "covenant of faith" with Abraham. But Gal 3 goes so far as to proclaim that God "preached the gospel of of Jesus Christ to Abraham" and when Abraham believed the gospel, he was made righteous.

    Gal 3:6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.
    7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.
    8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU.”
    16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.​

    It wasn't that Abraham believed any random thing, but God preached the gospel of Jesus Christ to him.

    Gen 15:5-6 KJV] 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.​

    This demonstrates that believing the gospel of Jesus Christ is what lead to Abraham's righteousness. This was just about the simplest form of the gospel imaginable. But it was "good news" and it was about Jesus, and so it counts as The Gospel of Jesus Christ. This begs two questions - how much "knowledge" of the gospel did Abraham have, and how much of The Law of Moses was involved in Abraham's righteousness?

    Abraham had very little to no knowledge of what the gospel meant. He knew one good thing about Christ and this was enough of the gospel of Christ for God to make him righteous. Therefore a full understanding isn't necessary for salvation, but rather faith.

    Secondly, the Law of Moses wasn't given until 430 years after Abraham was made righteous for his faith.... the the righteousness of faith is completely apart from, and outside of The Law of Moses.

    Now with these things in mind, read the rest of Romans 4:

    Rom 4:9-17 NASB
    9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation. 16 For this reason [it is] by faith, in order that [it may be] in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17 (as it is written, "A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU") in the presence of Him whom he believed, [even] God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.​

    So unlike Abraham who was made righteous directly for his faith, we are made righteous indirectly by our faith first qualifying us as descendants of Abraham. God promised the descendants of Abraham would inherit the righteousness given to Abraham. So we are NOT given righteousness for our faith... faith does not qualify us for rightousness, but rather faith qualifies us as descendants of Abraham, and descendants of Abraham INHERIT Christ's righteousness from their father Abraham.

    Therefore, faith and righteousness are now INDIRECT. This means the notion that one merits the truth one believes is not just false, but it's irrelevant because faith doesn't cause righteousness. Having the same faith as Abraham causes kinship with Abraham, not righteousness. God's promise to Abraham was that his descendants would inherit the everlasting covenant of faith. Therefore it is a righteous God's promise to Abraham which motivates Him to make the descendants of Abraham righteous, and faith simply qualifies you for kinship with Abraham.
     
  5. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I am not sure why this thread is in the C&A forum?

    Edit: I see why it is here after reading your second post.
     
    #5 Reformed, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  6. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Respectfully, I think you are conflating believing something into being with believing something that is based on a condition. If I believe that God will allow me into heaven based on my good deeds outweighing my bad deeds, then I am believing in a false premise. However, if I exercise faith in Christ, I am meeting the condition of Acts 16:31 and Romans 10:9-10.
     
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  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The issue is understanding the differences.
    Belief is because of a preceived truth.
    Justice is what is due.
    Mercy falls under grace, in being what is not earned.
    Mercy under law, mercy for giving mercy.
    Now there is forgiveness under law, forgive to be forgiven.
    And there is forgiveness, which given without merit under grace.

    All the false religions have a faith plus works, a merit system. Where there is either mercy without justice, or justice without mercy.

    Only in Christianity do we have both true and complete mercy with full and complete justice with God. Where those whom God forgives God justifies with His holiness and justice. And those who receive justice and not the mercy refused to hear truth.
     
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  8. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    It's true righteousness is not earned. The righteousness we wear is not our own. It's the righteousness of Christ.
    MB
     
  9. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I can quibble with a few of your word choices. For instance, Belief (faith) is because of convinced truth. The forgiveness under the Law is not the same as the forgiveness given under grace and mercy. I guess I do not understand the purpose of the thread.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Belief in a truth is how we know a thing. Knowledge has merit.

    Now knowledge of having grace does not cause anyone to merit what one had obtained by grace.

    Knowing (believing) a truth does not cause one to merit the truth believed.

    The problem is how to make or best state this distinction.

    Noting having knowledge has merit, such as being educated versus not being educated. Were as believing in what one cannot merit cannot merit what one does not merit.

    Abraham believed God and God credited righteousness to him. A jewish view is that Abraham did merit it by his believing God. But we as Christians know Abraham did not (Romans 4:1-5).
     
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