All have sinned when Adam sinned - Rom. 5:12-19

While I hold the opposite view, I do appreciate this well stated, clear presentation of the traditional view.
Good Job!!

And let me say I do not know this view is wrong, or that my view is right, but in concluding what this ambiguous statement means, we have parted company.

Let me offer the alternate view, we were "made" sinners. Now that might not mean we are guilty of Adam's sin, for God does not punish the child for the sins of the father, but that our spiritual state (separated from God) is that of sinners. Paul tells us that babies in the womb have not done anything bad, so we have not sinned yet, but we are sinners due to our separation from God.

The word translated sinned includes two ideas, one the act or thought that misses the mark, and two, the consequence of the miss. "For all sinned" refers to all receiving the consequences of Adam's sin, both the separation (conceived in the spiritually dead separated from God state) and conceived in a corrupted state predisposed to volitionally sin.

Yes I know its a long way around the barn, but in my opinion, it is the only view consistent with all scripture.

 

AW.Pink: the Atonement;

No satisfactory answer can be given till we go right back to the counsels of the Godhead. Covenant oneness accounts for all, vindicates all, explains all.

Christ was substituted for His people because He was and is one with them — identified with us and we with Him; not merely as decreed by the sovereign authority of the Godhead, but as covenanted between the eternal Father and the eternal Son. Christ “bore the sins of many” because in His covenant identification with them, their sins became sinlessly but truly His sins; and unto the sons and daughters of the covenant, the Father imputes the righteousness of His Son, because, in their covenant oneness with Him, His righteousness is undeservedly but truly their own righteousness. This alone explains all Christ’s history as the incarnate Son of God; all His interposition as the Savior of His people; and it places the career of Christ on earth in its true relation to the eternal purpose of God. In its completeness, as bearing on the covenant-clients as well as the covenant- Head, it is the formal instrument by which faith comes into sure possession of Christ Himself and the benefits of redemption.

Christ is expressly denominated “the last Adam” ( 1 Corinthians 15:45), and therefore are we told that the first Adam was “the figure of Him that was to come” ( Romans 5:14). Adam was a “figure” of Christ in quite a number of ways, but supremely in this, that he stood as the federal head of a race. God entered into a covenant with him ( Hosea 6:6, margin), and therefore he stood and fell as the legal representative of all his family: when he sinned, they sinned; when he died, they died ( Romans 5:12-19). So was it with the “last Adam”: He stood as the covenant Head and federal Representative of all His people, being legally one with them, so that He assumed and discharged all their responsibilities. The birth of Christ was the begun manifestation of the eternal union between Him and His people.

In the Covenant, Christ had said to the Father, “I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the Church will I sing praise unto thee. And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which Godhath given me” ( Hebrews 2:12,13).

Most blessedly is this explained in what immediately follows: “Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same,” and therefore “He is not ashamed to call them brethren.” Federation is the root of this amazing mercy, covenant — identification is the key which explains it. Christ came not to strangers, but to “brethren”; He came here not to procure a people for Himself, but to secure a people already His ( Ephesians 1:4; Matthew 1:21).

Since such a union has existed between Christ and His people from all eternity, it inevitably followed that, when He came to earth, He must bear their sins, and now that He has gone to heaven they must be clothed ( Isaiah 61:10) with all the rewardableness of His perfect obedience. This is the strongest buttress of all in the walls of Truth, yet the one which has been most frequently assailed by its enemies. Men have argued that the punishment of the Innocent as though He were guilty was an outrage upon justice. In the human realm, to punish a man for something of which he is neither responsible nor guilty, is, beyond question, unjust. But this principle did not apply to Christ, for He had voluntarily identified Himself with His people in such an intimate way that it could be said, “For both He that sanctifieth, and they who are sanctified, are all of one ” ( Hebrews 2:11).

When we say that the union between Christ and His people is a federal one, we mean that it is of such a nature as to involve an identification of legal relations and reciprocal obligations and rights: “By the obedience of One shall many be made [legally constituted] righteous” ( Romans 5:19).

 

The phrase “by birth” can infer a genetic component to sin, something alien to original biblical intentions... Our DNA doesn’t produce sin, and doesn’t change upon coming to faith.

Per Romans 5.13, as humans we were held accountable to God once Adam sinned. In other words, Adams sin brought accountability for sin upon humanity.

Rob

 

There is some sin connected with each human because each human dies, huh? We are born the same as Adam after the fall.

 

I do not know where brethren come up with the age of accountability?... The age of accountability is birth!... Brother Glen

Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

 

Hi Tyndale 1946
Sinning in a manner like Adam refers to volitional sin, Adam knew God had said not to eat the fruit, but He ate it anyway. Before humans are able to know they are going against God (or against what they think is right) refers to the age of accountability. For example, babes in the womb have not done anything bad. They are condemned from conception, not because they chose to sin, but because they were "made sinners." So the idea is that before the age of accountability, before the person is able to sin volitionally, they are not storing up wrath for their thoughts and actions, but of course they are already condemned.

 

Well once in church I heard a preacher make this analogy from the pulpit... He said now this may step on the toes of some folk but babies are born sinners... Now you are probably asking yourself, the little fella is innocent how can he possibly sin?... Well I will show you... Now you that have been parents, have you ever picked up the little one after they have been crying, thinking there is something wrong, we all have... They won't eat, so they're not hungry, they don't need changing, they're as dry as a bone and they are happy and cooing now that you picked them up... Brethren that little one just told a lie... Yeah accountable at birth... And all of us are guilty who are reading this now, that little fella many, many years ago was you and I... Brother Glen

 

I am not trying to say that children below the age of accountability go to hell but that they do die because they are Adam's children.

 

Death was part of the good creation. After Adam sinned, they were deprived of the tree of life, so that they would not live forever in that sinful state (Genesis 3:22). The common failure in traditional theology is a failure to understand how finite good man is thrown into a sinful state by having God's knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:22). Because of sin, death is now the enemy which now must be done away with.

 

I am not sure that I understand your comment about the role of death. My opinion is that Eve brought death into the world and that God does not desire the death of a sinner but that he may turn from his wicked ways and live--to paraphrase the English Book of Common Prayer.

 

Once in Christ we are not accountable for our sins, yet from our perspective we sin, are convicted and strive to avoid sin in the future. Before (as babes) we know this or that is sin, God would not count those actions against us. Before the age of accountability, we did not store up wrath due to God's grace. Note the difference, the view does not say little ones do not miss the mark, only they are unaware of the mark.

 

Fascinating point, one that I had not considered. Thanks

If I understand your view, Adam before the fall was finite physically, but was spiritually eternal. After the fall, he remained finite physically, but was now spiritually dead, separated from God. So it is being spiritually dead that is the enemy which now must be "overcome."

Is that your view??

 

Who would you prefer to be accountable for whether you go to Hell or not? Yourself or God?

Do we ultimately save ourselves by being accountable for ourselves? Can we birth ourselves, from above?

 

I am sorry but I really do not understand your question.

 

Based on Genesis 2:17 death existed else God spoke of what did not yet have any real meaning.