Great List of Pre Augustine Fathers on Freewill

Yes, I've read their writings.
In most of them, the very first thing I noticed was how much they started to disagree with Scripture the more time elapsed after end of the first century and the deaths of the apostles.

Historically, apostasy started to set in almost immediately in the visible churches, especially at Rome or those associated with Rome.
In reply to the Reformation era teachings that God's will determines who is saved , the Council of Trent was convened...Here are some excerpts from its Sixth Session, "On Justification":

CANON V.-If any one saith, that, since Adam's sin, the free will of man is lost and extinguished; or, that it is a thing with only a name, yea a name without a reality, a figment, in fine, introduced into the Church by Satan; let him be anathema.

CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.

CANON XII.-If any one saith, that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ's sake; or, that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified; let him be anathema.

CANON XV.-If any one saith, that a man, who is born again and justified, is bound of faith to believe that he is assuredly in the number of the predestinate; let him be anathema.

CANON XVII.-If any one saith, that the grace of Justification is only attained to by those who are predestined unto life; but that all others who are called, are called indeed, but receive not grace, as being, by the divine power, predestined unto evil; let him be anathema.

CANON XIX.-If any one saith, that nothing besides faith is commanded in the Gospel; that other things are indifferent, neither commanded nor prohibited, but free; or, that the ten commandments nowise appertain to Christians; let him be anathema.


The Roman Catholic Church currently teaches man's will as the determiner of who gains the gift of eternal life ( called "Molinism" after the Jesuit monk who codified it, Luis De Molina ), and has, for a very long time. But in 429 at the Second Council of Orange, free will as being the determiner of salvation was struck down as part of "Pelagianism".

Beliefs changed over the centuries, but Scripture never changes.
It says that there is none that seeks God in and of himself, and that man's will does not play a part in determining who is born again, only God's will does ( John 1:13 ).


May God bless you sir.

 

I agree... they got really far from the Bible around 1500 A.D.
Where were they?

Teaching that sinful, rebellious man's will determines sinful, rebellious man's destiny... which it doesn't ( John 1:13 ).
We as a race descended from Adam, have overlooked the one thing that keeps rearing its ugly head and getting in the way:

We always want to do something to obligate God to save us, which nothing we do can ever accomplish.


This was the problem with the unbelieving Pharisees...they thought that the Law was the way to eternal life...but it wasn't.
It's purpose is to show men that they cannot keep it, and to direct them to a Saviour who would save them from both their own rebellious love of sin, and their own burden of trying to live up to God's commandments.

But with men whose hearts God does not change, the understanding of this important lesson never becomes apparent ( because it is in Scripture, which unbelieving men do not believe )...instead of casting ourselves on the mercy and grace of God, we keep throwing ourselves at the brick wall of works in order to gain favor with the Almighty.
Those works include anything as "small" as "exercising saving faith" ( which is taught nowhere in God's word ), to repenting, being baptized, keeping the commandments, going to church, saying a dozen "Hail Mary's", and "doing penance" and a whole list of things that men, who look at the Bible and see "requirements", think that they can do to be saved.
None of it results in anything other than to remain in our corrupt condition, because God has decided that eternal life, which is to know Him and His Son ( John 17:3 ) is a gift ( Romans 6:23 ) not a reward that obligates Him.

God's word, which is written to His children ( John 20:30-31, Romans 15:4, 2 Timothy 3:16-17 ) and intended for them and them alone, contains all of the details as to how and why He has saved any of us.
One of those details is that man's decision to be saved plays no part in the matter.

Ultimately, God's will is done on earth, as it is in Heaven ( Daniel 4:35 ), not man's will.
He regards no man's wishes, because all of us are under sin ( Romans 11:32, Galatians 3:22 )...therefore, it is His decision to save someone based on His mercy and grace ( Exodus 33:19, Romans 9:14-16, Titus 3:5-6 ), not on any works of righteousness that we might be able ( which we aren't ) to perform.
He regards no man's works as righteous, unless they are declared righteous by His Son's blood shed on the cross for them.
He is the one who saves ( Jonah 2:9, Psalms 3:8,) and He is the one who damns ( Matthew 10:28, Luke 12:5, James 4:12 ).

Our wishes as sinful men are moot, because we are responsible for our own condition, not Him ( Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18 ).
He is not a respecter of persons ( Deuteronomy 10:17, Job 34:19, Acts of the Apostles 10:34, Romans 2:11, Galatians 2:6, Ephesians 6:9, Colossians 3:25 ).
He regards no man's efforts to gain favor with Him ( Job 7:17, Psalms 8:4, Psalms 144:3, Hebrews 2:6 ).
If He were fair, He would throw all of us into Hell right along with the angels who fell...where we rightfully belong.

I'm sorry to hear that.

I'd rather He saved me, and He gets all the glory for bothering with my worthless hide; instead of me and my decisions playing a part, which gives me something to boast about.
That is what the Roman Catholic Church ( and many others today ) teaches...that eternal life is a reward for man's efforts, instead of it being a gift from God, based on God's efforts.


Personally, I have nothing to stand on except His mercy and grace towards me, a vile sinner that is His child through no effort of my own.
I believe on His Son because I am of His sheep ( John 10:26 ) and because it was given to me to believe and to suffer for His sake ( Philippians 1:29 ).
I believe because I am saved, not to gain favor with Him in any way.

I say all of this as a "Baptist" who believes the Bible's instruction for baptism ( a symbol of the believer's being buried with Him in death, and raised with Him in resurrection, to walk in newness of life ) of those who confess Jesus Christ as Saviour is full immersion, not sprinkling or pouring as the Roman institution and others teach.

I wish you well, sir.
This is my last reply to you in this thread.

Have you truly believed on Christ for the forgiveness of your sins?
Then it is God's doing, not your own.