Featured Lost by God's Will?

Hello Pastor Bob,
If correctly understood everyone who goes to Heaven or Hell does so according to God's will.
In 1tim.2 God has purposed to save all kinds of men. The gospel goes worldwide. Salvation is not only among Israelites.
It is all men, rich, poor, young ,old.kings, those in authority.
It is clearly not all men who ever lived.

2pet 3 is speaking of the fact that not one who this passage speaks ,of will be lost.God has decreed,destined,and purposed,[bulemai] that all spoken of here will be saved.
It is not teaching that all.men ever born were considered at all.

 

Yep

 

Charles Spurgeon with strong words of rebuke for those who'd twist God's Word here:

sermon: "Salvation By Knowing the Truth"
text: I Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

"What then? Shall we try to put another meaning into the text than that which it fairly bears? I trow not. You must, most of you, be acquainted with the general method in which our older Calvinistic friends deal with this text. "All men," say they, —"that is, some men": as if the Holy Ghost could not have said "some men" if he had meant some men. "All men," say they; "that is, some of all sorts of men": as if the Lord could not have said "all sorts of men" if he had meant that. The Holy Ghost by the apostle has written "all men," and unquestionably he means all men. I know how to get rid of the force of the "alls" according to that critical method which some time ago was very current, but I do not see how it can be applied here with due regard to truth. I was reading just now the exposition of a very able doctor who explains the text so as to explain it away; he applies grammatical gunpowder to it, and explodes it by way of expounding it. I thought when I read his exposition that it would have been a very capital comment upon the text if it had read, "Who will not have all men to be saved, nor come to a knowledge of the truth." Had such been the inspired language every remark of the learned doctor would have been exactly in keeping, but as it happens to say, "Who will have all men to be saved," his observations are more than a little out of place. My love of consistency with my own doctrinal views is not great enough to allow me knowingly to alter a single text of Scripture. I have great respect for orthodoxy, but my reverence for inspiration is far greater. I would sooner a hundred times over appear to be inconsistent with myself than be inconsistent with the word of God. I never thought it to be any very great crime to seem to be inconsistent with myself, for who am I that I should everlastingly be consistent? But I do think it a great crime to be so inconsistent with the word of God that I should want to lop away a bough or even a twig from so much as a single tree of the forest of Scripture. God forbid that I should cut or shape, even in the least degree, any divine expression. So runs the text, and so we must read it, "God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.""

 

Normally I don't get involved with this kind of debate and will only interject what I see the text saying.

God is not willing that any should perish. Plain and simple, there is no qualifier in the Greek text.
ὃς πάντας ἀνθρώπους θέλει σωθῆναι

The context perhaps can be used to make your point but not the grammatical structure of verse 4.

 

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

We are to believe that Peter felt it necessary to tell the church that God purposes, decrees, and predestines all of the elect will eventually come to repentance unto salvation?

That's fairly obvious, isn't it?

More likely the plain reading is all you need--God does not want anyone to perish, wants all to come to repentance, but because they reject Jesus, they will perish.

 

Yes..I see it this way.

Are all men who ever lived saved...no
When this verse was written did it include all of the world of the ungodly who died in the flood....no
Did it include the sodomites in Sodom and Gommorah ...no
Pharoah's army dying in the Red Sea...no

So in trying to derive the meaning I rule out what cannot be.

Can the verse mean that if all men living repent and believe they would be saved?
Sure...that would give evidence that they were elected by God.

Does the verse indicate that if all men wanted to repent and believe God would deny any of them saying no you are not elect so you cannot come?...no

If the verse is somehow suggesting all men in general...why would there be any reason to distinguish, kings, those in authority?
They would be included in the all.

 

In a positive way I believe God is incontrol 100 % of salvation so He saves all he intends to save. I don't believe that God intends to save people and they don't become saved.

 

Hello Hank, I've heard it preached that the emphasis is on the word willing where God used a stronger word saying he has decreed Destined and purposed that none of these that he's spoken of perish so the conclusion is Peter is still addressing the elect and those elect to a not saved yet

 

A Calvinist redefining words to make his theology fit scripture.

Well, we've never seen this before, ladies and gentlemen, no, never!

And what about this curious phrase, "the not yet saved elect?" So they are elect, but not yet saved. Hmmm....so God elects people in eternity past and then looks down through the corridors of time and chooses the moment they will be regenerated and be gifted with the faith they need to overcome total depravity? All of a sudden--BAM! you got faith! BAM! you got faith!

 

Sure but when Ezekiel 36 was written specifically to the Israelites, and as a prophecy, it doesn't stop the Calvinist from applying it to people alive TODAY!

 

Does the potter not have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honourable use and another for common use?

Romans 9:21 (NASB)

 

Mr Spurgeon sure did his best to dodge the truth of the gospel. There is no twisting here just the gospel truth shinning through. Calvinist seem affraid that the provisions of Christ for His sheep wouldn't be good enough for everyone if all were saved. They forget that All things are possible with God.
MB

 

It means whosoever will may come.

 

Let me explain why ITL.
Yes it was written to Israel at that time, nevertheless it is valid for all believers because it describes the work of God in regeneration..
Christian's are part of the True Israel of God, so it is valid for us also.

 

Now I understand what you are suggesting, taking your view from what you believe is the over all character of God. I am not sure that view can be sustained.
Now I believe it is a proper desire on our part that we would do all we can to remove obstacles and plant seed in those we deal with.
While we know election is 100 %biblical, we do not know who are elected so we approach everyone and are used by God to work toward salvation or damnation of the person.
God electing men being an unseen work,no one is stopping a person from believing.
From our standpoint everyone is potentially a believer, God knows them that are His.

You say we believe some things the same and zi agree because we have to agree on portions of it.
You think God has sort of left it to man, but it was said in jn 2 that Jesus knew what was in man already and did not commit to them.
I will do more from my laptop tonight. I like how you are approaching the discussion and believe this can be helpful for all of us to work through

 

If not even a sparrow falls to the ground outside of the will of God (Matthew 10:29), it is hard to see that God is powerless to prevent men and women from dying and going to hell.
You will perhaps reply that God is not powerless to prevent this, but that it happens against His will. I ask what power it is that is stronger than God to force Him to act against His will (Psalms 115:3).

 

Not to burst your bubble, but if you study the words thelo and boulomai, you will see that the Holy Spirit used different words
I know you like to oppose these things, but what if if the Cals have it right?