1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

When Does God Send People Strong Delusions To Believe Lies?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by 3rdAngel, Oct 6, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 3 of 7
  1. Gentle-Warrior

    Gentle-Warrior New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Amen!
     
    #41 Gentle-Warrior, Oct 21, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  2. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    Indeed, the key point here is that the "CONDITIONS" of having eternal life is "BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING" God's Word this is correctly stated in the "PRESENT TENSE" aroist possibly best translated "BELIEVING" or continuing to believe.

    So if we believe and follow God's Word we can know that we are right with God and have have the "hope" of eternal life through the promises of Gods Word. God's promises give the believer the "hope" of eternal life because as yet no one has received it until our life is over.

    According to Gods Word no one has "received" eternal life until we have "endured temptation" to the end believing and following God's Word (alwayspresent tense) *JAMES 1:12. So we have the "hope" of eternal life today as believers through the "promises" of God's Word as we "believe" Gods Word in the present tense application.

    According to God's Word (not mine) if we "believed and followed God's WORD (past tense) yesterday and should "FALL AWAY" * LUKE 8:13; HEBREWS 6:4-6; 2 PETER 3:16-17; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1; or "DEPART THE FATIH" and no longer "believe" and follow God's Word (present tense) we no longer meet the conditions of Gods promises for "eternal life" as we are no longer "believers" (present tense) but have become "unbeliever" (present tense) no longer having "eternal life" *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39.

    As shown above all those who "BELIEVE AND FOLLOW" Gods WORD (present tense aroist) have the "HOPE" of eternal life today. This HOPE is sure and true and cannot fail as it is Gods' WORD and God's promise to the "BELIEVER" (present tense) of God's Word.

    As shown through the scriptures above already, according to Gods Word no one has "received" eternal life until we have "endured temptation" to the end believing and following God's Word (always present tense) *JAMES 1:12 if we "believed and followed God's WORD (past tense) yesterday and should "FALL AWAY" * LUKE 8:13; HEBREWS 6:4-6; 2 PETER 3:16-17; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1; or "DEPART THE FATIH" and no longer "believe" and follow God's Word (present tense) we no longer meet the conditions of Gods promises for "eternal life" as we are no longer "believers" (present tense)" but have become "unbeliever" (present tense) no longer having "eternal life" *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39.

    As shown through the scriptures above our hope is only certain if we CONTINUE in the faith BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD. If we "FALL AWAY or DEPART THE FAITH" we have become unbelievers (present tense) and have not met the "CONDITIONS" of eternal life because we are no longer "BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's Word.

    There is no such teaching as "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" as we would not be able to "DEPART" the faith or FALL AWAY". The teaching of "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" is unbiblical and a false Gospel from the father of lies first preached to Eve in the Garden of Eden were the devil tempted Eve saying you can break God's Commandments and not surely die when God told them in the day you shall eat thereof you shall surely die *GENESIS 3:1-5. The soul that continues in sin ( break God's Commandments) shall indeed surely die *EZEKIEL 18:4-24; HEBREWS 10:26-39; HEBREWS 6:4-8

    You are teaching a false Gospel. Only he that endures to the END receives everlasting life *JAMES 1:12. Faith is the substance of thing "HOPED" for and the evidence of things not seen but are to come *HEBREWS 11:1
     
    #42 3rdAngel, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God sees us right now seated in the heavens with Christ Jesus, so God sees us there right now with Him, and yet we no loinger remain there later on?
    Salvation is from faith to faith, so what would we do to have Jesus tell His Father that we have gone too far, and that he disowns us, as His blood lost its power to cleanse?
     
    #43 Yeshua1, Oct 21, 2019
    • Useful Useful x 1
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Lost sinners will also reject Jesus to save them due to their natures, so how do we get saved again?
     
    #44 Yeshua1, Oct 21, 2019
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    His own know His voice, and will NEVER perish, His words, not mine!
     
    #45 Yeshua1, Oct 21, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    if we never were water baptized, never took Communion, never attended a church meeting, and yet heard and beloved unto Jesus as Lord, we would still be saved!
     
    #46 Yeshua1, Oct 21, 2019
    • Useful Useful x 1
  7. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    "His own" are only those who hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him *JOHN 10:26-27. If they continue to the end they will never perish *JAMES 1:12. If they do not endure temptation to the end believing and following God's Word they will indeed perish *HEBREWS 10:26-39; HEBREWS 6:4-8. That is why we are warned all through the old and new testament scriptures not to fall away and depart the faith.
     
    #47 3rdAngel, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus is the great High Priest who intercedes for Hs own, and God said that they would be saved forever, was God wrong?
     
    #48 Yeshua1, Oct 21, 2019
    • Like Like x 2
  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    As posted above "his own" are only in reference to those who hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him *JOHN 10:26-27. If they continue to the end "believing and following" God's Word they will never perish *JAMES 1:12. If they do not endure temptation to the end believing and following God's Word they will indeed perish *HEBREWS 10:26-39; HEBREWS 6:4-8. That is why we are warned all through the old and new testament scriptures not to fall away and depart the faith * LUKE 8:13; HEBREWS 6:4-6; 2 PETER 3:16-17; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1. Our salvation is "CONDITIONAL" on believing and following God's Word always present tense.
     
    #49 3rdAngel, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Paul used Roman terminology while describing out adoption by God now in Christ, and that once sealed by the Holy Spirit, adoption cannot be undone, just as was not able to be undone in Rome once legally adopted!
     
    #50 Yeshua1, Oct 21, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    49
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Amen! Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. :)

    Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for/unto the day of redemption.:Thumbsup
     
    #51 Danthemailman, Oct 21, 2019
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  12. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    The GREEK Word used here for BELIEVED is πιστεύω pisteuō From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit ; by implication to entrust (especially one's spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with once again "present tense" aorist to "BELIEVING" of "CONTINUING" to believe or ongoing faith. These promises are also "CONDITIONAL" for receiving and keeping God's Spirit with us. God's Spirit stays with those who are "BELIEVING" and continue to believe and follow God's Word who are His Sheep *JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27.

    Once again we are "WARNED" not to "GRIEVE" or to "QUENCH" (meaning to put out) God's Spirit *1 THESSALONIANS 5:19. We "GREIVE" of "QUENCH" (put out) God's Spirit by not believing and following God's WORD. Only those who "CONTINUE" to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD are therefore 'SEALED FOR/UNTO the day of redemption.

    The Greek word used for GRIEVE is λυπέω; lupeō and means to; to distress ; reflexively or passively to be sad: - cause grief, grieve, be in heaviness, (be) sorrow (-ful), be (make) sorry.

    Why are we warned not to Grieve the Holy Spirit? 1 THESSALONIANS 5:19 states it more clearly when it says QUENCH NOT THE SPIRIT OF GOD. You may want to go back brother and look at your interpretation of EPHESIANS 4:30. This scripture is NOT SAYING that once we receive God's Spirit it cannot leave us as you have interpreted these scriptures otherwise PAUL would not say QUENCH NOT THE SPIRIT OF GOD.

    The Greek word used here for QUENCH NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD is σβέννυμι; sbennumi from G4570 and is a verb meaning to put out or extinguish

    NOTE: These scripture references here are WARNINGS to the BELIEVERS and FOLLOWERS of God's Word who have not grieved the Holy Spirit. The Greek words used here also for quench not the Spirit is σβέννυμι; sbennumi (G4570) which is a verb and means to extinguish (literally or figuratively): - go out, quench. Ephesians 4:30 tells us that we should not grieve the Spirit. Note also the CONTEXT of EPHESIANS 4:30. We grieve or quench the Spirit by living like the pagans by not believing and following God's Word *EPHESIANS 4:17-19, by lying *EPHESIANS 4:25, by being angry *EPHESIANS 4:26-27, by stealing *EPHESIANS 4:28, by cursing *EPHESIANS 4:29, by being bitter *EPHESIANS 4:31, by being unforgiving *EPHESIANS 4:32, and by being sexually immoral *EPHESIANS 5:3-5. To grieve the Spirit is to act out in a sinful manner, whether it is in thought only or in both thought and deed and not believing and following God. These WARNINGS are for BELIEVERS of God's WORD not to put out; quench or grieve the Holy Spirit!

    Those who do not believe and follow God's Word grieve and quench the Holy Spirit and are unbelievers who do not believe and follow God's Word..

    HEBREWS 3:10 Why I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do always err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

    HEBREWS 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?

    If we GRIEVE or QUENCH God's Spirit we can be come God's enemy...

    ISAIAH 63:10 But they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit; therefore he turned to be their enemy, and himself fought against them.

    ACTS 7:51 You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you.

    .............

    REPENTANCE *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13, CONFESSION *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13 OF SIN *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 and FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's promises *2 PETER 1:4 in the NEW COVENANT are all requirement for salvation.

    Those who follow God do not make a practice sin and those who continue in SIN do not know God *1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4 and need to be BORN AGAIN. If the HOLY SPIRIT cannot come and go why are we warned not to QUENCH (put out) or GRIEVE the HOLY SPIRIT *EPHESIANS 4:30; PSALMS 51:10-13?

    We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN *GENESIS 6:5-6; PSALMS 119:158 and not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD *PSALMS 95:10-11; HEBREWS 3:10-11; HEBREWS 3:17-19.

    It is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END that will be saved *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23.

    Salvation is "CONDITIONAL" on "BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING" God's WORD.

    God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him *JOHN 10:26-27
     
    #52 3rdAngel, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  13. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    There is no scripture for this false teaching of "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" As shown through the scriptures above this is a false teaching that has it's origin from the father of lies to Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden that caused the fall of mankind *GENESIS 3:1-5. According to Gods Word only those who "ENDURE" temptation to the end believing and following Gods' Word receive everlasting life *JAMES 1:12

    Salvation is "CONDITIONAL" on "BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING" God's WORD.

    God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him *JOHN 10:26-27
     
    #53 3rdAngel, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  14. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    49
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Which is descriptive of genuine believers and not make believers.

    Only those who are truly saved endure. You confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture because you teach salvation by works (grace plus law, faith plus works) to be exact. What did Jesus say about those who do not continue in His Word? They were NOT TRULY His disciples. John 8:31 - So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are TRULY disciples of Mine.

    Descriptive of unbelievers and not believers who lost their salvation. In Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). *You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.*

    In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

    So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" in verse 29 should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but then renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

    I've heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6 (hypothetical view, lost salvation view, never truly saved view) but am not convinced that it teaches a really "saved" person actually "lost their salvation." In the portion that addresses those who were ‘enlightened’, have ‘tasted of the heavenly gift’, and were ‘made partakers of the Holy Ghost.’ The writer of Hebrews the writer does not state that these individuals were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit" or "or received the Spirit's pledge (guarantee) of future inheritance." Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away do not accompany salvation.

    In regards to Luke 8:13, even though this rocky ground hearer is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually "saved"?

    First, his heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer in the 4th soil, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a person who is not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.

    IN CONTRAST TO - Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. So the rocky soil represents a person not properly prepared in heart so the seed planted ends up with a lack of "root" (lack of being firmly planted, or established) and good soil represents a person properly prepared in heart who having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keeps it and bears fruit with patience.

    *Unlike saving belief, temporary, shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they are not saved.

    John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted and consummated belief that results in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them. Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not truly "believe unto salvation" and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18) but were instead children of the devil.

    Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

    In 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

    I presume that you believe "depart from the faith" means that born again believers depart from saving faith in Christ and lose their salvation. The words "the faith" (Greek tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines. Some who are in a state of professing adherence to the apostolic faith, nevertheless will in both doctrine and practice depart from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.

    Some "nominal" Christians will abandon the Christian faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines for cults or false religions. That does not prove they were previously born again. In 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
     
    #54 Danthemailman, Oct 21, 2019
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  15. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    Might make this response over a few posts for your consideration or anyone else that may be interested.
    Your response...
    It is as the scriptures read. Application is to those who believe and follow God's WORD. If we "FALL AWAY" and "DEPART THE FAITH" we no longer meet the conditions of salvation because we have fallen away to become "UNBELIEVERS" ** LUKE 8:13; HEBREWS 6:4-6; 2 PETER 3:16-17; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1; HEBREW 10:26-39
    Your reponse...
    Not really Dan as your twisting the scriptures to try and give them a different meaning. Here is why; You state only those who are truly saved endue. This is not biblical and is twisting the scripture to say something that they are not. Than we have God's WORD (not mine) that says; JAMES 1:12 Blessed is the man that ENDURES TEMPTATION: FOR WHEN HE IS TRIED HE SHALL RECEIVE THE CROWN OF LIFE, which the Lord has promised to them that love him. Those that love JESUS keep his Commandments *JOHN 14:15; REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14. God's Salvation is "CONDITIONAL" on BELIEVING and FOLLOWING his Word. Those who "ONCE BELIEVED AND FOLLOWED GOD'S WORD" Yesterday but no longer believe and follow God's Word today have become "UNBELIEVERS" and no longer receive God's promises *HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-39.

    to be continued...
     
    #55 3rdAngel, Oct 21, 2019
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  16. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    Your response...
    Not really Dan. Your kind of missing the point here HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 is descriptive of those who were "ONCE BELIEVERS" that became "UNBELIEVERS" by falling away and departing the faith. Let demonstrate this in the scriptures...

    SUMMARY OF HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39

    You would have to deny a lot of scripture defining who has fallen away from the faith in HEBREWS 6:4-8 and also HEBREWS 10:26-39 to say someone who was "ONCE A BELIEVER" cannot "FALL AWAY" and "DRAW BACK" to depart the faith. As shown from the scriptures word for word in God's Word alone. These scriptures are "WARNINGS" to BELIEVERS" not to depart the faith..

    These people that "ONCE BELIEVED" and "DEPARTED THE FAITH" are described as...

    HEBREWS 6:4-8 ...
    1. ONCE enlightened; HEBREWS 6:4
    2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; HEBREWS 6:4
    3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; HEBREWS 6:4
    4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; HEBREWS 6:5
    5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come
    6. THEY (BELIEVERS) FALL AWAY; HEBREWS 6:6
    7. THEY (BELIEVERS) renew themselves to repentance; HEBREWS 6:6
    8. THEY (BELIEVERS) by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame; HEBREWS 6:6

    Then in HEBREWS 10:26-39 ...

    1. WE (BELIEVERS) return back to a life of known unrepentant SIN; HEBREWS 10:26
    2. WE (BELIEVERS) being those who have received a knowledge of the truth; HEBREWS 10:26
    3. WE (BELIEVERS) will receive the judgments of God; HEBREWS 10:27
    4. WE (BELIEVERS) will receive a greater punishment for returning to a life of known unrepentant sin because we have receved a knowledge of the truth and turned away from it; HEBREWS 10:29
    5. WE (BELIEVERS) by returning back to known unrepentant sin after we receive a knowledge of the truth we count the blood of the covenant an UNHOLY thing and do despite to the Spirit of Grace; HEBREWS 10:29
    6. WE (BELIEVERS) are warned not to CAST AWAY our confidence which has great reward; HEBREWS 10:35
    7. WE (BELIEVERS) receive God's promise after we do God's will; HEBREWS 10:36
    8. WE (BELIEVERS) are WARNED NOT TO DRAW BACK INTO UNBELIEF; HEBREWS 10:38

    These are "WARNINGS" from God's Word and it is God's Word alone that says that these people were "BELIEVERS" that departed the faith to return to a life of known unrepentant sin showing indeed that someone who was "ONCE A BELIEVER" can lose their salvation. God's salvation and all of God's promises are always "CONDITIONAL" on "BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's Word in the "PRESENT TENSE" *JOHN 3:15-21. If we do not believe and follow God's Word we come under "CONDEMNATION" because salvation is by faith in God's Word *JOHN 3:18.

    This is different to PROVERBS 24:16 which is talking about a "RIGHTEOUSS MAN" not an "UNRIGHTEOUSS MAN" which is being spoken of in HEBREWS 6:4-8 and HEBREWS 10:26-39 who has "FALLEN AWAY" and has "DRAWN BACK" by rejecting the faith to live a life of known "UNREPENTANT SIN"

    Sorry my friend there is no such thing as "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" this is a false gospel and one that has its origin from the father of lies first preached to Eve in the Garden of Eden *GENESIS 3:1-5. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it. Salvation is "CONDITIONAL" on BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's Word. If you do not believe and follow God's Word to the end than you do not have salvation *HEBREWS 3:14; HEBREWS 10:38; HEBREWS 12:25-27; 2 PETER 2:20; HEBREWS 3:6-8; HEBREWS 2:3; COLOSSIANS 1:23; JAMES 1:12; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; 2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1.

    God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him *JOHN 10:26-27.
     
    #56 3rdAngel, Oct 21, 2019
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    Your response...
    As shown in the previous section the "CONTEXT" as outlined in HEBREWS 10:26-38 is a "WARNING" to BELIEVERS not to depart or fall away from the faith by showing that BELIEVERS can depart the faith to return back to a life of known unrepentant sin. In fact the very context is demonstrated in v38 with a warning to those who "DRAW BACK" to the context sin in v26-27. Just the fact that someone is "DEPARTING THE FAITH" DRAWING BACK" only supports that a believer can depart the faith otherwise we would not be "WARNED" not to.
    Not really Dan, here is why...

    HEBREWS 10:29 in reference to those who sin sillfully after receiving a knowledge of the truth says [29], Of how much sorer punishment, suppose you, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant, with which he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and has done despite to the Spirit of grace?

    The GREEK word used here for "SANCTIFIED" is ἁγιάζω hagiazō From G40; means to make holy, that is, (ceremonially) purify or consecrate ; (mentally) to venerate: - hallow, be holy, sanctify.

    This word used here has notthing to to with being set apart except to be holy. The reference being made here is that these person was "ONCE HOLY" by believing and following God's WORD but departed the faith *HEBREWS 10:26-39.

    We might leave it here as the rest of your post is not relavant.

    May you receive God's WORD and be blessed.
     
    #57 3rdAngel, Oct 21, 2019
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  18. Gentle-Warrior

    Gentle-Warrior New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2019
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Lost sinners have ALREADY rejected the Lord, but if they repent before they die, they too will be part of the kingdom of God.

    By the way, your post did not make any sense. Would you like to rephrase it?

     

    Attached Files:

    #58 Gentle-Warrior, Oct 21, 2019
  19. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2019
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    7
    Faith:
    Seeking Christ
    This is true brother as it is only those who believe and follow Gods Word that will be saved. It works both ways, if believers become unbelievers they will be lost just as if unbelievers believe and turn to God can be saved.
     
    #59 3rdAngel, Oct 22, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    49
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Of course saving belief in Christ is ongoing and continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. God's Spirit stays with those who truly believe and those who truly believe continue to believe and are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)

    Only genuine believers continue to believe and follow God's Word and are sealed for/unto the day of redemption. Those who pervert the gospel do not believe or follow God's Word, yet are under the delusion that they do.

    Which proves that the Holy Spirit is a Person with emotions (third Person of the Godhead) and not merely a force. I'm sure that the Holy Spirit was grieved when the apostle Peter denied knowing Christ three times and temporarily deserted Him at the time of Jesus' arrest, yet this was not permanent. Actually, ALL of the remaining 11 disciples were said to "fall away" (Matthew 26:31-35) yet nothing was said about any of them losing their salvation. Judas Iscariot on the other hand was already in the processing of betraying Jesus as predicted and was never a genuine believer, but was an unbelieving, unclean devil! (John 6:64-70; 13:10-11)

    My interpretation of Ephesians 4:30 is find and this scripture is not saying that once grieved the Holy Spirit will leave believers and they will become unsealed, otherwise Paul would not say sealed for/unto the day of redemption. Your interpretation of the Holy Spirit leaving believers is cynical and inconclusive.

    Who at one time or another has not grieved the Holy Spirit? When the Holy Spirit is grieved the fire is temporarily extinguished during the grieving, yet the Holy Spirit is a fire that could never be permanently extinguished and God does not forsake His saints. Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

    During the time of grieving the fire is extinguished, but nothing is mentioned about this being permanent or else believers would not be sealed unto/for the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

    Believers are capable of stumbling in those areas of sin (especially babes in Christ - 1 Corinthians 3:1-3) who need to mature. Although believers are capable of stumbling at times, those who are born of God do not practice sin. (1 John 3:9) The idea of practice is to perform repeatedly and describes repetition or continuous action with no goal or effort to stop. This describes the practice as habitual, as one's lifestyle or bent of life. Those who practice sin demonstrate that they have not been born of God. To have weak moments and stumble intermittently is different than making these behaviors a willful, habitual lifestyle with no goal or effort to stop.
     
    #60 Danthemailman, Oct 22, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
Page 3 of 7
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...