Calvinism and how to discuss it without debate

[S0l0m0n]

There are many times when I wish to discuss theological ideas that will end up sounding too 'Calvinist'. The thread would then inevitably turn into a 'debate', and it would derail the thread. My only option is to post in the 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' forum, where I am not looking for a debate or to provoke anyone into an argument.

And so I ask the Admins if it is possible to have a 'Calvinist' theology forum, in addition to the 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' forum.
Where ideas of predestination and such, can be argued among those who wish to build up others with the same ideas, without having to defend the absolute basics of their theological thought process at every single turn.

 

[George Antonios]

I'm not a Calvinist but I understand your desire and support it.

 

[Reformed1689]

I actually like this idea. But the Arminians would also need their own forum as well. This would also require another safeguard.

@Squire Robertsson is this even possible? I know if someone is not baptist there are forums here they cannot even see or post to. Is it possible to do that sort of declaration with Calvinist/Arminian as well?

 

[Aaron]

There are many times when I wish to discuss theological ideas that will end up sounding too 'Calvinist'. The thread would then inevitably turn into a 'debate', and it would derail the thread. My only option is to post in the 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' forum, where I am not looking for a debate or to provoke anyone into an argument.

And so I ask the Admins if it is possible to have a 'Calvinist' theology forum, in addition to the 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' forum.
Where ideas of predestination and such, can be argued among those who wish to build up others with the same ideas, without having to defend the absolute basics of their theological thought process at every single turn.

Link me to one of those threads, so I can see how the debate starts. Seems if one is simply asking questions about what another believes, there would be no debate unless the one asking the questions starts to argue with the answers he's given.

 

[atpollard]

I actually like this idea. But the Arminians would also need their own forum as well. This would also require another safeguard.

@Squire Robertsson is this even possible? I know if someone is not baptist there are forums here they cannot even see or post to. Is it possible to do that sort of declaration with Calvinist/Arminian as well?

On another board that I moderate (non religious), we have a simpler mechanism for such discussions. We simply prefix the title with a limiting identifier in brackets.

For example ...
[WW1 Only] Naval Tactics

This would announce to all participants that the topic of Naval Tactics is restricted to the WW1 era and comments on Naval Tactics in thee 1970’s would be unwelcome. Off topic posts violating the WW1 topic restriction would simply be reported and deleted.

For the Baptist Forums, a simple explanation of policy that a topic identified [Particular Baptist Only] or [General Baptist Only] would be expected to be restricted to discussions of those views by those holding those views. [Calvinist Only] and [Arminian Only] would work as well, but some anti-Calvinists object to being called “Arminian”.

 

[tyndale1946]

I can't speak for Aaron but him an I have been on here the longest... He longer than me but not by much... You want to start a separate forum?... Why?... Just start a conversation and find brethren who share the same views you do and invite them... I know this for sure there are groups organized now, in private... I know because I started one... A conversation can turn into a group, invite who you want and don't want... The power that be can change the forums if they want and I'm not telling them, they can't, they will do what is best for the board, at their discretion... We don't run the board, they do!... We'll just wait and see... Brother Glen

 

[Reformed]

I can't speak for Aaron but him an I have been on here the longest... He longer than me but not by much... You want to start a separate forum?... Why?... Just start a conversation and find brethren who share the same views you do and invite them... I know this for sure there are groups organized now, in private... I know because I started one... A conversation can turn into a group, invite who you want and don't want... The power that be can change the forums if they want and I'm not telling them, they can't, they will do what is best for the board, at their discretion... We don't run the board, they do!... We'll just wait and see... Brother Glen

Glen, this is a good idea. It is a sure-fire way to keep a conversation going with only those you want to participate in the conversation. It will save the moderators a lot of extra policing.

 

[MB]

Oh no the Calvinist are organizing. Anti Calvinist run for your lives. They'll be like Calvin and all of them will want to be Pope. We will have to convert or die.
MB

 

[S0l0m0n]

This is really funny to me, by the way.
This thread was started without the idea that there was another thread (Should the Baptist Board...?) calling for:
'shutting down the Calvinism/Arminianism debate forum'.
Very interesting.

 

[MartyF]

There are many times when I wish to discuss theological ideas that will end up sounding too 'Calvinist'. The thread would then inevitably turn into a 'debate', and it would derail the thread. My only option is to post in the 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' forum, where I am not looking for a debate or to provoke anyone into an argument.

And so I ask the Admins if it is possible to have a 'Calvinist' theology forum, in addition to the 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' forum.
Where ideas of predestination and such, can be argued among those who wish to build up others with the same ideas, without having to defend the absolute basics of their theological thought process at every single turn.

I'm not a Calvinist but I understand your desire and support it.

I actually like this idea. But the Arminians would also need their own forum as well. This would also require another safeguard.

@Squire Robertsson is this even possible? I know if someone is not baptist there are forums here they cannot even see or post to. Is it possible to do that sort of declaration with Calvinist/Arminian as well?

First, the forums allow for this now. Click on your profile. Click on start your conversation. Then add the names of those whom you wish to converse.

Oh, you wish to make your statements public? Well, that's the problem.

Invariably, a Calvinist will say something which will offend a literate person or vice versa. And almost every time the thread ends up getting featured and somebody clicks on it and down the rabbit hole it goes.

So, what your request ends up being is a desire to be able to publicly attack your ideological enemy while suffering no repercussions or allowing them defense.

Now, just like any socialist dictator who thinks he is the one to finally get socialism right, you might think that Calvinists are all truly benevolent and will never abuse the Calvinist only forum. It won't happen.

You were obviously upset that your Calvinist Origins thread got derailed, but may I suggest that instead of changing the forums,

1. Ignore them. Eventually, even a complete troll like Aaron will stop trolling you for a post after his fifth or sixth unanswered post. The troll will eventually stop if ignored. You can also turn off notifications and in that way you won't even know if the troll is pinging you incessantly or replying to the same post repeatedly unless you have some time and want to amuse yourself.

Makes life a lot less stressful.

2. Allow them the last word. If your arguments and beliefs are sound and you are comfortable with them, you don't need the last word. Let them say what they have to say.

3. Realize that in your thread about Calvinist Origins, none said they became a Calvinist after "losing" an online forum debate.

 

[Reformed1689]

First, the forums allow for this now. Click on your profile. Click on start your conversation. Then add the names of those whom you wish to converse.

That's not the same thing.

 

[Reformed1689]

So, what your request ends up being is a desire to be able to publicly attack your ideological enemy while suffering no repercussions or allowing them defense.

This is not true.

 

[Reformed1689]

Invariably, a Calvinist will say something which will offend a literate person or vice versa

So Calvinists aren't literate?

 

[Dave G]

Oh no the Calvinist are organizing. Anti Calvinist run for your lives. They'll be like Calvin and all of them will want to be Pope. We will have to convert or die.

I think that this is the sort of mocking and ridicule that we're looking to avoid.

Granted, there are some "sovereign gracers" that do this as well, but seriously...
If this sort of thing prevails, how are we to have profitable discussions?

To share Scripture and to edify one another?

Also, MB, according to God's word we as believers are to avoid this because that is how the people of this world conduct things...
If they disagree, they simply scorn someone and laugh them out of the room.
Is this the way we are to treat our brothers and sisters, much less our fellow man?

Please read these and take them to heart:

Romans 12
Colossians 3.

 

[Reformed]

If this sort of thing prevails, how are we to have profitable discussions?

Dave, it is not that difficult. Ignore them. I do not mean block them, so that you cannot see their posts, I mean just ignore them. Dismiss them with a wave of your hand. They are trolls and they win by leading you down rabbit trails that are unprofitable for all involved. If we play their game then we really have no right to complain because we are a willing participant. And if the truth is told, many of my fellow Calvinists on this board do exactly that. They repeatedly dialogue with those who do not display goodwill. Perhaps some of my fellow Calvinist brethren should check their own motives.



Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Dave G]

Invariably, a Calvinist will say something which will offend a literate person or vice versa. And almost every time the thread ends up getting featured and somebody clicks on it and down the rabbit hole it goes.

I'm a very literate person, Marty.

But how intelligent a person God made them to be, or how well-read a person is, has nothing to do with the belief of God's words.
True God-given faith ( Ephesians 2:8, Hebrews 12:2, Hebrews 11:1 ) and the presence of the Holy Spirit ( John 14:26, John 16:13, Romans 8:14, 1 John 2:20-27 ) does.

Believers are to put their trust in Him and His words ( Proverbs 3:5-6 ), not in their own abilities or understanding.
Please see Matthew 11:25-27, Luke 10:21, 1 Corinthians 1:18-31, 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 for who God decides to reveal Himself to...
Entirely sidestepping their level of intelligence and anything else that mankind holds in high regard, is how God saves someone and shows them the truth of His words.

In fact and according to Scripture, the only reason someone takes to heart every word of God, is because they are "of God" :

" Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:46-47 ).

So, what your request ends up being is a desire to be able to publicly attack your ideological enemy while suffering no repercussions or allowing them defense.

What I'd like is not to have people attacking other people in print with snide comments when they submit Scripture and present their beliefs about it.
Civil discussions can prevail, if people would only obey the Lord in their conduct towards one another.

But if this is the only avenue that I can avail myself of,
then that is the Lord's will and of course I must suffer the opposition's presence in the "arena".

 

[Dave G]

Now, just like any socialist dictator who thinks he is the one to finally get socialism right, you might think that Calvinists are all truly benevolent and will never abuse the Calvinist only forum. It won't happen.

I've seen it happen from the "other side" in many places...

Here, and outside of this one, as well.
Respectfully, those that you call "Calvinists" don't have a corner on bad behavior.
Everyone is guilty of it, at some point and to some degree.

What's more, completely removing "Calvinists" from this board would only give those left something else to argue about, as I see it.
That is the reality of "human nature", as well as those that have a new nature and are at war with the flesh ( Romans 7:14-25, Galatians 5:17 ).

2. Allow them the last word. If your arguments and beliefs are sound and you are comfortable with them, you don't need the last word. Let them say what they have to say.

I agree.

3. Realize that in your thread about Calvinist Origins, none said they became a Calvinist after "losing" an online forum debate.

Again I agree.

No one I know has ever claimed to become what you call a "Calvinist" after losing an online debate.
In addition, I know of no one who was "converted" to it after seeing someone win an online debate, either.

To me, that kind influential "convincing" does not have any place within the body of Christ.
It may have a place in secular institutions of education, philosophy and politics, but it really should not apply to biblical doctrines.

Finally, I know of no one who was ever "converted" to it by anything other than what they saw in God's word for themselves.


May you remember His blessings to you each and every day, sir.

 

[37818]

The problem is not the debate. But when anyone disagrees and resorts to name calling or worst yet making false accustions. Such as telling the other party that they believe somthing they explicitly deny believing.

 

[S0l0m0n]

Ladies and gentlemen,
the thread will continue on.
There were just a few goats on the tracks,
and that should be cleared up in just a moment.
Please sit back and have a safe journey.

Oh no the Calvinist are organizing. Anti Calvinist run for your lives. They'll be like Calvin and all of them will want to be Pope. We will have to convert or die.

You were obviously upset that your Calvinist Origins thread got derailed

 

[Reformed1689]

Such as telling the other party that they believe somthing they explicitly deny believing.

However, taking ones argument to its logical conclusion is completely appropriate.