Iron Sharpens Iron

[rlvaughn]

What is the meaning of Proverbs 27:17? How does one sharpen his friend?

Older versions include the word countenance.

• King James Version: Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
• English Revised Version: Iron sharpeneth iron; So a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
• American Standard Version: Iron sharpeneth iron; So a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

Newer versions tend to be more economical with the language.

• New American Standard Bible: Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.
• New English Translation: As iron sharpens iron, so a person sharpens his friend.
• New International Version: As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.

Going older, Wycliffe: Iron is whetted by iron; and a man whetteth the face of his friend.
Going “literal,” Young’s Literal Translation: Iron by iron is sharpened, And a man sharpens the face of his friend.

Most people I know interpret this verse in some kind of positive sense, that the outcome is good, such as:

• The help of one friend improves the other.
• Learned men sharpen one another’s minds.
• Constructive criticism sharpens character.

Sometimes the interpretation is presented negatively, such as:

• One man’s passion incites another’s rage.

Ron Giese in the Journal of Biblical Literature (Spring 2016) presents “iron sharpens iron” as a negative image, “a man causes his neighbor to go on the attack (i.e., have a ‘sharp face’).”

What do you think? Is this sharpening positive or negative? Why?

 

[kyredneck]

• The help of one friend improves the other.

• Learned men sharpen one another’s minds.

• Constructive criticism sharpens character.

^this^

i.e. my iron has gotten much sharper from the ten years I've participated on this board

 

[rlvaughn]

If we use the Baptist Board as an example, I am sure we can prove this one, too:

One man’s passion incites another’s rage.

 

[Reformed]

What do you think? Is this sharpening positive or negative? Why?

I think it can go both ways. The key to the passage is that men are capable of sharpening one another. The picture the author creates is of iron being used to sharpen an iron implement. Sharpening creates friction and sparks. Go back up to verse 6 and we read, "Faithful are the wounds of a friend". So, the process may be painful but the reward is pleasant. Sometimes we are sharpened by our enemies, even when they mean us harm (c.f. Genesis 50:20).

 

[kyredneck]

If we use the Baptist Board as an example, I am sure we can prove this one, too:

Wow, you're absolutely spot on with that one. Geez, I read right over top that. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[kyredneck]

If we use the Baptist Board as an example, I am sure we can prove this one, too:

FYI, I wasn't being 'funny' in post #5.

 

[rlvaughn]

FYI, I wasn't being 'funny' in post #5.

To clarify on my post #3, I did think of it as a funny observation, but not in the sense of it being humor that is not true.

 

[Reynolds]

What is the meaning of Proverbs 27:17? How does one sharpen his friend?

Older versions include the word countenance.

• King James Version: Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
• English Revised Version: Iron sharpeneth iron; So a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
• American Standard Version: Iron sharpeneth iron; So a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

Newer versions tend to be more economical with the language.

• New American Standard Bible: Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.
• New English Translation: As iron sharpens iron, so a person sharpens his friend.
• New International Version: As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.

Going older, Wycliffe: Iron is whetted by iron; and a man whetteth the face of his friend.
Going “literal,” Young’s Literal Translation: Iron by iron is sharpened, And a man sharpens the face of his friend.

Most people I know interpret this verse in some kind of positive sense, that the outcome is good, such as:

• The help of one friend improves the other.
• Learned men sharpen one another’s minds.
• Constructive criticism sharpens character.

Sometimes the interpretation is presented negatively, such as:

• One man’s passion incites another’s rage.

Ron Giese in the Journal of Biblical Literature (Spring 2016) presents “iron sharpens iron” as a negative image, “a man causes his neighbor to go on the attack (i.e., have a ‘sharp face’).”

What do you think? Is this sharpening positive or negative? Why?

I have always understood the passage intent but always thought the analogy odd. Having worked with metal all my adult life, the last thing I would sharpen Iron with would be Iron. While you can sharpen Iron with Iron, there are about a million better ways to do it.

 

[kyredneck]

To clarify on my post #3, I did think of it as a funny observation, but not in the sense of it being humor that is not true.

Yea, it is humorous, or maybe paradoxical(?), that debate that gets you 'riled' can eventually make you 'sharp'.

(but this definitely is not true for everyone )

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

What is the meaning of Proverbs 27:17? How does one sharpen his friend?

Older versions include the word countenance.

• King James Version: Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
• English Revised Version: Iron sharpeneth iron; So a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
• American Standard Version: Iron sharpeneth iron; So a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

Newer versions tend to be more economical with the language.

• New American Standard Bible: Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.
• New English Translation: As iron sharpens iron, so a person sharpens his friend.
• New International Version: As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.

Going older, Wycliffe: Iron is whetted by iron; and a man whetteth the face of his friend.
Going “literal,” Young’s Literal Translation: Iron by iron is sharpened, And a man sharpens the face of his friend.

Most people I know interpret this verse in some kind of positive sense, that the outcome is good, such as:

• The help of one friend improves the other.
• Learned men sharpen one another’s minds.
• Constructive criticism sharpens character.

Sometimes the interpretation is presented negatively, such as:

• One man’s passion incites another’s rage.

Ron Giese in the Journal of Biblical Literature (Spring 2016) presents “iron sharpens iron” as a negative image, “a man causes his neighbor to go on the attack (i.e., have a ‘sharp face’).”

What do you think? Is this sharpening positive or negative? Why?

I'm not sure how one would glean a negative from it. Doesn't the sharpening imply a prolonged intentional act aimed at making the other blade useful for its purpose? Or are such interpreters suggesting that the iron should be dull and not blades at all?

 

[Lambrini]

I must say, R. L, I had never heard "Iron sharpeneth iron" interpreted in anything but a positive sense before. But I can see how a sharp-tongued woman (or man) could provoke, by his or her words of anger, rage in a husband/wife.

When I run across this sentence, I think of my days at New Trier West High School in Northfield, IL, and how being in classes with all the Jewish children that lived in our school district "sharpened" my intellect (the Jewish families tended to put a high premium on education).

 

[MartyF]

What do you think? Is this sharpening positive or negative? Why?

It’s Jewish meditation poetry. Unlike expository text, it’s not suppose to have a set meaning.

So as long as the purpose behind your reading is correct, there isn’t a “wrong” interpretation.

Psalm 1:2 NLT
[2] But they delight in the law of the LORD, meditating on it day and night.

 

[Van]

I had assumed I knew the meaning of this verse, so thanks for sharpening my outlook. Upon reflection, I still think the idea is positive, we (siblings in Christ) build up our "associates" sometimes with a love based rebuke.

Once of the commentaries mentioned Proverbs 27:6 in support of the positive interpretation.

Yes, those that left out "face" which is used to refer to awareness and outlook, poorly translated the verse in my opinion.

 

[Lambrini]

It took me almost a whole day, but I located on the internet the pop song that uses the line, "After all your words of steel." It is "Oh Sherry" by Steve Perry (lead singer of Journey).


OH SHERRY (lyrics)
You should've been gone
Knowing how I made you feel
And I should've been gone
After all your words of steel [emphasis mine]...

So, the steely words of the woman ("words of steel") are like iron (steel is made from iron), which gave Steve Perry a steely resolve to GET OUTTA THERE (the negative interpretation of "Iron (her tongue) sharpeneth iron (his heart)." The moral of the story? Maybe it's to remember, "A soft answer turneth away wrath."

 

[rsr]

I guess you can take your pick, since there seems to be no definitive answer.

John Gill: ... Jarchi and Gersom understand it of the sharpening of men's minds to the learning of doctrine; but Aben Ezra, takes it in an ill sense, that as iron strikes iron and sharpens it, so a wrathful man irritates and provokes wrath in another."

And the 1599 Geneva Bible note says that "One hasty man provokes another to anger."

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

For those who would interpret the passage negatively, the challenge is to show that the action of the iron should not be to sharpen iron, that sharp iron is undesirable, that a negative process is indicated.

Pointing to a negative human situation and then working backward is termed eisegesis.

Note that one could also use iron to dull iron, but that is not the simile of the passage. However, it could be used as a starting point for thinking about why dull iron might be better. And the context is back then, not now.

 

[rlvaughn]

I must say, R. L, I had never heard "Iron sharpeneth iron" interpreted in anything but a positive sense before.

I had not either, as far as I remember, but since looking at this found some old commentaries that do so.

For those who would interpret the passage negatively, the challenge is to show that the action of the iron should not be to sharpen iron, that sharp iron is undesirable...

So it seems to me, that the illustration suggests something that is desirable -- sharp iron (therefore not a negative). The use in Ecclesiastes 10:10 would seem to support that idea also. It is wise to have a sharpened iron ax, so you don't have to exert as much energy in the chopping.