Featured Predestination unto salvation

No insult intended, just stating the facts as I see them. No chart needed to do that.

 

The predestination is never, ever, anywhere in scripture, that of a lost man unto salvation. We had a whole thread about that, and no one produced one verse. Check it out.

 

Wrong. 'Predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son' most definitely equates to salvation.

 

Just saying it doesn't make it so. I've presented the verses that define Paul's use of "predestination"


All the verses that mention predestination are about a saved man getting predestinated, according to the foreknowledge of God, unto standing before God in love and holiness and obtaining a glorified resurrection body in the image of Christ's resurrection body.

Now, present your verses which define the term. Don't insult me, don't dismiss the verses out of hand. Simply produce counter-defining verses, please.

 

Yes He is but you aren't.
MB

 

Just saying it doesn't make it so.

 

I agree in that those who approach this topic from philosophy or emotions never grasp the scriptural components to get it.
God given revelation informs us of the teaching if we desire to seek it out.
Another obstacle for some is failing to get hold of the correct biblical usages of the terms and keep them separate.
Foreknowledge, decree, election, predestination. Getting these wrong is to build on sand.
For example if someone says foreknowledge biblically equals a simple prescience, no sense reading further as they have already missed it.

 

To say that because God has created everything is predestined is not according to the biblical usage, but is pure philosophical speculation.
Others confuse omniscience with foreknowledge. Scripture and words used must be accurate to correctly learn of these truths.

I lean towards infra although I first heard Supra ideas expressed. It would not disturb me at all if supralapsarian was correct because if so I am confident God would have perfect wisdom on why it was so.

 

One of my favorite theologians is the late R.C. Sproul, Sr. R.C. was also a philosopher. He asked the great questions of life that the ancient philosophers like Aristotle, Plato, Epicurus, and Socrates tried to answer. However, even though he saw value in philosophy, R.C.'s final authority for all matters of faith and practice was the Bible. How much did R.C. Sproul love scripture? He once said, “I’ll retire when they pry my cold, dead fingers off of my Bible.” And that is about how it went.

 

I am more than certain that former persons in church history took a peek at the scriptures from time to time to gather a biblical understanding.
Our thoughts apart from direct scriptural input only hinders correct understanding
If I had a dollar for everytime emotional or philosophical objects against truth are raised I would not have to continue to work.

 

@JonC , God has, indeed, given us a mind and the ability to reason. I do not think philosophy is evil. I do think that philosophy has a dark side, as what happened through philosophical reasoning by the German Higher Critics in the 18th-century. Higher Criticism resulted in an abandonment of scripture as the final authority of all matters of faith and practice. Instead of asking great questions and turning to scripture for answers, Higher Criticism embraced intellectual Gnosticism and Humanism. That is one of the reasons why I am guarded about philosophy. It has value, so long as it drives us to scripture.

 

Not exactly.

Acts 2:37-39 37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.” (emphasis mine)

προσκαλέω (proskaleo) "call" is written in the aorist tense. It is an uncompleted act, indicating that those called by the Lord our God is not complete. There are those who have not yet been called. It also makes the "promise" in verse 39 both now and not yet. It has been fulfilled in those already called but not in those who have yet to be called.

John 10:16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

The "other sheep" are the Gentiles (the nations) that were not yet part of the fold. While the Gospel would go out in force to the Gentiles during Paul's ministry, it continues to do so today. So, when our Lord spoke those words they were about a future action.

I have more examples I can cite but these will suffice.

 

Election is from all eternity but it occurs in time through what is referred to as the effectual call. Acts 2:39 is saying the promise contained in the Gospel is for you (those hearing Peter's words, your children (their posterity), all who are far off (the nations), and "as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself" (those elect or predestined to eternal life who had not yet heard the gospel message).