Monergists who are not Calvinists

It is "Classic Arminianism". It corresponds to the Five Articles of the Remonstrants. Dr. Robert E. Picirilli has one of the best (IMHO) books explaining the theology to those unfamiliar. It is "Grace, Faith, Free Will".

 

I do not mean that Calvinism fails to explain causation. I mean Calvinism is simplistic while Arminianism is complex. Personally, I believe both are wrong, but they are also interesting in their own rights. The main difference is where Calvinism views things as decreed Reformation Arminianism splits the idea and differentiates more strongly between decree and ordain.

 

Not so odd considering that Calvin didn't believe it either. He rejected the notion of Christ literally going to Hell, affirming that the light of Christ shone so brightly on to the righteous dead as to be "enabling them to realize that the grace which they had only tasted in hope was then manifested to the world."

"Nothing had been done if Christ had only endured corporeal death. In order to interpose between us and God's anger, and satisfy his righteous judgment, it was necessary that he should feel the weight of divine vengeance. Whence also it was necessary that he should engage, as it were, at close quarters with the powers of hell and the horrors of eternal death. We lately quoted from the Prophet, that the "chastisement of our peace was laid upon him" that he "was bruised for our iniquities" that he "bore our infirmities;" expressions which intimate, that, like a sponsor and surety for the guilty, and, as it were, subjected to condemnation, he undertook and paid all the penalties which must have been exacted from them, the only exception being, that the pains of death could not hold him. Hence there is nothing strange in its being said that he descended to hell ... " Institutes, Book 2, Chapter 16, Section 8.

 

I disagree (in a way). Obviously Hell is not a present reality but a judgment "on that day". Calvinism held (and still holds) that Christ suffered "the weight of divine vengeance". This is literally Hell (as literal to Hell as we can discuss in this lifetime).

But you are correct that to view Christ as going to a Hollywood type of where Jesus is tortured by demons (that was how Joyce Myers described it once) is foreign to Calvinism. Some view Christ suffered God's vengeance for three hours, others for three days. I do not think the time frame matters much (it is absent the literal punishment the lost will experience, i.e., a hopelessness).

 

The difference is causation.

A decree is something that God has made a necessity. God decreed the Fall, so in a sense God was the cause of the Fall.

Preordained is different. Knowing the Fall would occur God ordained that it occurring it served His plans.

I do not draw a distinction in my own view because it does not matter. I believe that in a sense all things are decreed by God's act of creation. In another many things are ordained as God is not the author of those things.

 

I never said anyone believes God "caused" the Fall.

Consistent ones that believe Christ to be the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world believe the Fall to be decreed. Many Calvinists I have encountered believe that the Fall was not just something God had a pre-knowledge and reacted to but that God actually decreed would occur (it was not outside of God's sovereignty).

I am not a Calvinist and I believe this. At the same time I do not believe this makes God the author of sin (and those Calvinists I know who also believe that the Fall was within Divine Sovereignty do not hold that this makes God the author of sin).

 

Welcome to the club (get ready for "you just did not understand Calvinism" or "you were among us but not really one of us or you would not have left" ).

What made you leave Calvinism?