Any Here believe in New Covenant Theology?

[Mikey]

Yes, as of right now leaning towards 1689 theology, as do see the Church founded at Pentecost, and do see still a Premil eschatology, and a hope for national Israel in future still!

Agree the church started at Pentecost. That was (one of) the main reason why i do not accept CT that was espoused by presbyterian, that Israel is the Church, Church is Israel. meaning that the Church existed before Pentecost.

 

[37818]

Do you believe that Gentiles who believe are saved are saved by faith in the death of Christ? If not, then how do you believe they are saved? If so, are they not included as part of the Israel of God who will be saved and are of the bride of Christ?

See Ephesians. The saved gentiles are not saved Israel and are part of the church too. That is why both are the church. The church is not Israel, because the gentiles in the church and are not without Israel. That is why they are the one body of Christ. The church is not Israel but does not exclude Israel. Again, Revelation 21:12-14. They are distinct but the one Bride and body of Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

Agree the church started at Pentecost. That was (one of) the main reason why i do not accept CT that was espoused by presbyterian, that Israel is the Church, Church is Israel. meaning that the Church existed before Pentecost.

I see saved jews and saved Gentiles as now spiritual israel of God, but that God not done dealing with national israel either

 

[Yeshua1]

See Ephesians. The saved gentiles are not saved Israel and are part of the church too. That is why both are the church. The church is not Israel, because the gentiles in the church and are not without Israel. That is why they are the one body of Christ. The church is not Israel but does not exclude Israel. Again, Revelation 21:12-14. They are distinct but the one Bride and body of Christ.

Yes, as Church is spiritual Israel today!

 

[Noah Hirsch]

Yes, as Church is spiritual Israel today!

According to Ephesians 2 we Gentiles are now fellow citizens with the old covenant saints and are no longer excluded from the commonwealth of Israel. Therefore, I do not embrace New Covenant Theology. What does the term church mean? Does it not mean “congregation” or “assembly?” It is just not rendered as church in the Old Testament as it is in the New Testament in most of our Bibles. What is the Greek word used in the Septuagint in the places in the Old Testament in which most of our Bibles say, “congregation?” It is “ecclesia” the same Greek word that is rendered as “church” in most places in most translations in the New Testament, but as “congregacion” in William Tyndale’s New Testament and “assembly” in the World English Bible.

“unto the church of God which is at Corinth, even them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, their Lord and ours:” (1 Corinthians 1:2 ASV)

“Vnto the congregacion of God which is at Corinthum. To them that are sanctified in Christ Iesu sainctes by callynge with all that call on the name of oure lorde Iesus Christ in every place both of theirs and of oures” (1 Corinthians 1:2 TNT)

“to the assembly of God which is at Corinth—those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, both theirs and ours:” (1 Corinthians 1:2 WEB)

 

[Mikey]

According to Ephesians 2 we Gentiles are now fellow citizens with the old covenant saints and are no longer excluded from the commonwealth of Israel. Therefore, I do not embrace New Covenant Theology. What does the term church mean? Does it not mean “congregation” or “assembly?” It is just not rendered as church in the Old Testament as it is in the New Testament in most of our Bibles. What is the Greek word used in the Septuagint in the places in the Old Testament in which most of our Bibles say, “congregation?” It is “ecclesia” the same Greek word that is rendered as “church” in most places in most translations in the New Testament, but as “congregacion” in William Tyndale’s New Testament and “assembly” in the World English Bible.

“unto the church of God which is at Corinth, even them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, their Lord and ours:” (1 Corinthians 1:2 ASV)

“Vnto the congregacion of God which is at Corinthum. To them that are sanctified in Christ Iesu sainctes by callynge with all that call on the name of oure lorde Iesus Christ in every place both of theirs and of oures” (1 Corinthians 1:2 TNT)

“to the assembly of God which is at Corinth—those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, both theirs and ours:” (1 Corinthians 1:2 WEB)

Intresting, do you see the Church existing in th OT?

 

[37818]

I see the actual NT Church started at Pentecost, but all of those saved by God in the OT were saved by Him as part of that Body, spiritual israel!

Two things. First, Jesus started building His church with His first disciples. Second, there is no such thing as the church being "spiritual Israel." Israel was the church in the very beginning. The gentiles were added to the church, causing the church to be distinct from Israel. Saved Israel never stopped being part of the church. But the church as a whole became distinct from Israel. So that makes the Bride of Christ which is the church to be both Israel and the chruch. Get it? Revelation 21:12-14. Now Pentecost is a type of birth for the church that was already, Acts of the Apostles 1, Acts of the Apostles 2:1-4. It is when the church became the temple, believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

 

[37818]

Yes, as Church is spiritual Israel today!

Repeating a falsehood does not make a falsehood true.
Galatians 6:16, ". . . peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. . . ." Ephesians 3:3-6, ". . . How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ). Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: . . ." Ephesians 2:12, ". . . That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: . . ."
. . ."

 

[Yeshua1]

Intresting, do you see the Church existing in th OT?

No, rather see those who were saved and redeemed as being included by God into the Spiritual israel of the NT Church body!

 

[Yeshua1]

Repeating a falsehood does not make a falsehood true.
Galatians 6:16, ". . . peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. . . ." Ephesians 3:3-6, ". . . How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ). Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: . . ." Ephesians 2:12, ". . . That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: . . ."
. . ."

There is but One Body of Christ saved and redeemed out, which is israel of spiritual Jews and saved gentiles now!

 

[Yeshua1]

Two things. First, Jesus started building His church with His first disciples. Second, there is no such thing as the church being "spiritual Israel." Israel was the church in the very beginning. The gentiles were added to the church, causing the church to be distinct from Israel. Saved Israel never stopped being part of the church. But the church as a whole became distinct from Israel. So that makes the Bride of Christ which is the church to be both Israel and the chruch. Get it? Revelation 21:12-14. Now Pentecost is a type of birth for the church that was already, Acts of the Apostles 1, Acts of the Apostles 2:1-4. It is when the church became the temple, believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

One Body of Christ, saved out Jews and Gentiles, Church also known as spiritual israel!

 

[37818]

One Body of Christ, saved out Jews and Gentiles, Church also known as spiritual israel!

Not anywhere in the written word of God. No such thing. There is the church, the one body of Christ, made up of the Israel of God and gentile believers in God's Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

Not anywhere in the written word of God. No such thing. There is the church, the one body of Christ, made up of the Israel of God and gentile believers in God's Christ.

Church is a NT thing....

 

[37818]

Church is a NT thing....

And began being the temple of God in Acts of the Apostles 2:1-4. But Jesus began building it before the cross, see Matthew 16:17-18; John 6:44-45.

 

[Yeshua1]

And began being the temple of God in Acts of the Apostles 2:1-4. But Jesus began building it before the cross, see Matthew 16:17-18; John 6:44-45.

Jesus was gathering unto Himself those whom he would be the Lord over....

 

[37818]

Jesus was gathering unto Himself those whom he would be the Lord over....

False. He died on the cross and rose from the dead to be the Lord of all, Romans 14:9, Romans 14:11. One is not saved by believing in His Lordship, Matthew 7:21.

 

[Yeshua1]

False. He died on the cross and rose from the dead to be the Lord of all, Romans 14:9, Romans 14:11. One is not saved by believing in His Lordship, Matthew 7:21.

Paul stated that we have to call upon Him as the Lord Jesus, enabled to by the Holy Spirit! Lord to me realising that He is God!

 

[Covenanter]

Intresting, do you see the Church existing in th OT?

There are various names used in Scripture for God's redeemed people - Israel, my people, Christians, followers, saints, children of God, children of Abraham, brethren, etc. ALL are one people of God in Christ, by faith. Some of those terms include unbelievers when applied to a visible gathering. Some need qualifying, e.g. Israel, as used without qualification other meanings may be implied.

The redeemed people of God, living by faith, did exist in the OT.

 

[Mikey]

There are various names used in Scripture for God's redeemed people - Israel, my people, Christians, followers, saints, children of God, children of Abraham, brethren, etc. ALL are one people of God in Christ, by faith. Some of those terms include unbelievers when applied to a visible gathering. Some need qualifying, e.g. Israel, as used without qualification other meanings may be implied.

The redeemed people of God, living by faith, did exist in the OT.

certainly there were OT saints (to use the term) but did they exist as the Church?

 

[Yeshua1]

Agree the church started at Pentecost. That was (one of) the main reason why i do not accept CT that was espoused by presbyterian, that Israel is the Church, Church is Israel. meaning that the Church existed before Pentecost.

They would see the church in the OT, but I tend to see the Church as now Spiritual israel, as in One body made up of both saved Jews and Gentiles