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Featured Where Did Paul Go on his Fifth Journey?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Dr. Bob, Jul 20, 2020.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    We all know journeys #1-#2-#3 from Acts 13-21, then #4 (sometimes falsely NOT called a missionary journey, but it certain was) from Acts 21-28.

    I am completing 55 messages in Acts and have found a WEALTH of Scripture from which I can trace out an amazing (and actually LONGER) #5 journey after his release at the conclusion of Acts. It is Scripture deduction and the time-line and in some cases even the order of stops cannot be "firm".

    Wonder if any here have studied this out or would like to discuss all that happened that takes careful piecing together investigation about this wonderful final ministry of Paul? I'm not scheduled to preach this final put-a-bow-on-it message until Sept 1, so open for ideas/insights.
     
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  2. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    Are you doing it through Biblical evidence only or also using extra-Biblical sources.
     
  3. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    First I have ever heard of it. But it does sound interesting
     
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    95% scriptural referencing, 5% Early church historical accounts (like Eusebius)

    NO traditions. NO catholic embellishments

    Absolutely amazed I was never taught any of this. Now a number of verses (written AFTER release from first imprisonment in Rome) fall into place
     
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  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Paul’s intention, prior to his arrest, was to visit the church in Rome to strengthen them and collect an offering for this missionary journey.

    Spain and/or Britain was a likely destination.

    peace to you
     
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  6. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Do tell us more.
     
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  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    This is my initial outline (not fleshed out here but salient Scriptures included)

    FIFTH MISSIONARY JOURNEY OF PAUL
    FROM RELEASE IN AD 63 UNTIL EXECUTION AD (late) 66 or 67


    ROME
    Acts 27:23-24
    Last night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship, and he said, 'Do not be afraid, Paul; you must stand before Caesar.
    Phil 1:19-26 “I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance, as it is my eager expectation and hope that I will not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
    If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.
    Convinced of this, I know that I will remain alive and continue to be with you, for your progress and joy in the faith, so that in me you may have ample cause to glory in Christ Jesus, because of my coming to you again.


    SPAIN
    Rom 15:22-29
    This is the reason why I have so often been hindered from coming to you. But now, since I no longer have any room for work in these regions, and since I have longed for many years to come to you, I hope to see you in passing as I go to Spain, and to be helped on my journey there by you, once I have enjoyed your company for a while.
    When therefore I have completed this and have delivered to those in Jerusalem what has been collected, I will leave for Spain by way of Rome. I know that when I come to you, I will come in the fullness of the blessing of Christ.


    CRETE
    Titus 1:5
    This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you

    EPHESUS
    I Tim 1:3b
    remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine
    II Tim 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me great harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds
    II Tim 1:15 You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes

    COLOSSAE
    Phm 22
    At the same time, prepare a guest room for me, for I am hoping that through your prayers I will be graciously given to you

    MILETUS
    I Tim 1:3a
    As I urged you [Timothy] when I was leaving for Macedonia, to remain in Ephesus
    II Tim 4:20b I left Trophimus, who was ill, at Miletus

    TROAS
    II Tim 4:13
    When you come, bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas, also the books, and above all the parchments

    MACEDONIA
    I Tim 1:3
    As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia,

    ACHAIA
    Titus 3:12
    When I send Artemas or Tychicus to you, do your best to come to me at Nicopolis, for I have decided to spend the winter there.
    II Tim 4:20 Erastus remained behind at Corinth

    NICOPOLIS
    Acts 24:5
    He was noted Christian “ringleader”; rearrested
    II Tim 4:13, 21a When you come, bring the cloak that I left with Carpus at Troas, also the books, and above all the parchments. Do your best to come before winter.

    ROME
    II Tim 1:16-18
    May the Lord grant mercy to the family of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains, but when he arrived in Rome he searched for me earnestly and found me — may the Lord grant him mercy on that Day.
    II Tim 4:11a Only Luke is with me.
    II Tim 4:11b Find John Mark and bring him with you, for he is very useful to me for ministry
    II Tim 4:16 At my first defense no one came to stand by me, but all deserted me. May it not be charged against them!
    II Tim 4:10a For Demas, in love with this present world, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica.
    Col 4:14; Phm 24
    II Tim 4:21
    Eubulus sends greetings to you, as do Pudens and Linus and Claudia and all the brothers
    II Tim 4:10b Crescens has gone to Galatia
    II Tim 4:10c Titus to Dalmatia.
    II Tim 4:12 Tychicus I have sent to Ephesus.
    II Tim 4:6–7 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering; the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
     
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  8. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Clear information from his earlier journeys in Acts
    1st journey: Galatians (Iconium, Derbe, Lystra, Antioch)
    2nd journey: I & II Thessalonians
    3rd journey: I & II Corinthians, Romans
    4th journey: Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, and a personal letter to Philemon in Colossae
    5th journey: (including final imprisonment) I Timothy, Titus, II Timothy

    Now from some references in the "Prison Epistles" (above) and then last three letters, I've pieced these ten probable stops (no "facts" showing Colossae or Macedonia as such stops, just his plan to visit)

    Open for more thoughts or verses I might have missed
     
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  9. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    upload_2020-7-22_12-55-2.png
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Very interesting, and good detective work. It isn't definite that he visited Ephesus again, and if he did, his gift of prophecy let him down in Acts of the Apostles 20:25.
     
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  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Pretty good assumption he was, as he later wrote "I urged Timothy [who was pastor there] when I left for Macedonia to remain in Ephesus". He left Timothy, indicating he was with Timothy and we do know where Timothy was :)
    Later he wrote again to Timothy that all in Asia had turned against him. How did PAUL know that? He had been in Asia (think the Aegean side of modern Turkey, NOT the continent of that name today) and named names.
     
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  12. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    This topic has always intrigued me as well. Since you still have lots of time may I suggest this free pdf from my friend Ed Stevens (linked below)? He has done a lot of careful research on that final decade before the fall of Jerusalem. You may perhaps disagree with his conclusions (I do not) but I am sure that there is much helpful material here.

    Final Decade Stevens
     
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  13. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    You were right on both counts - very intriguing to read AND disagree with his conclusion. Had me nodding in agreement until he went off the rails and had to have Paul martyred even before Burning of Rome and Neronic Persecution so he could manufacture a tribulation 7 years culminating in AD 70. Had to eliminate places and condense travel time to nearly nothing to fit it all in.

    I will go back and read more - THANK YOU for the link. (y) (y)
     
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  14. cheb

    cheb New Member

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    Paul's final missionary journey is addressed quite well in that great, 850-page work by W J Coneybeare and J S Howson: "The Life and Epistles of St Paul".

    For the record, Coneybreare and Howson date Paul's release from prison by Nero as Spring 63AD and date his execution as May or June AD68. By that time he would probably be in his late sixties.

    Coneybeare and Howson suggest the following sequence of events:

    Spring 63AD - Goes to Macedonia (Philippians 2 v 24)
    Late spring 63AD - Goes to Asia Minor (Philemon 22)
    Late 63AD/early 64AD - Journeys to Spain
    Summer 66AD - Back from Spain to Asia Minor (1 Timothy 1 v 3)
    Summer 67AD - Writes 1 Timothy from Macedonia
    Autumn 67AD - Writes Titus from Ephesus
    Winter 67AD/68AD - At Nicopolis - then arrested and taken to Rome.

    Incidentally it is mere assumption that Paul was just in Spain for those 3 years (63AD to 66AD). There is credible evidence, falling well short of proof, that he also preached in Gaul (France) and western Britain. A summary of this evidence appears in 'St Paul in Britain' by Rev William Morgan.

    The second Bishop of Rome, Clement - a disciple of Paul - wrote: "Paul preached the Gospel in the East and in the West and instructed the whole world in righteousness" (quoted in Coneybeare and Howson, 1898 edition, page 738). .
     
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  15. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Most think Clement's reference to the "west" was defined in the common use of his day as "Spain" (Iberia, western end of the Mediterranean) rather than Gaul or Britain of which that term was used infrequently.

    C&H was one of the first books I bought in 1965 when I began my library. Got it for $1 from a retired pastor's library that was donated to our college library and the duplicate copies sold off to anxious young men training for pastoral ministry.

    I just donated my copy to a group of inner-city pastors in Rockford, IL, along with 6 boxes of books :)
     
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  16. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Our Director of missions is retiring in Sep. He had sent out an E-mail that he was giving away a good portion of his library.
    I suggested that he give a large quantity to our Association i order to organize a library for the association.
     
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  17. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Did he ever make Spain, as he stated wanted to if released?
     
  19. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Some say he did
     
  20. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    He stated that nearly 4 years BEFORE he was imprisoned. The provable evidence that on his 5th journey he actually MADE IT to Spain isn't there; the probable evidence is from others who wrote about this decades later.

    We know for fact he DID make it to Crete, Asia (Ephesus), Greece, etc, from later inspired writing in the epistles.
     
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