Featured If I said it, then it must not be true ...

“When you say Christians disagree on whether the atonement is limited or unlimited it makes me think that Christians do not disagree on that doctrine.”

The above statement was offered in response to something I posted. Is it just me, or does that say that the fact that I says “something” makes that poster believe the opposite of what I said must be true?

I never realized my reputation was THAT bad.

 

I thought it more polite to point out the part that I found amusing rather than the above statement. There is NOTHING amusing about the claim that people that disagree with you on a subject as NON-ESSENTIAL as Particular Baptist vs General Baptist are not actually saved because a correct understanding is ESSENTIAL to salvation.

If the topic had not been closed, my response on THAT point would have been rather harsh. Those that claim my brothers in Christ are unsaved have come looking for a fight, and found one!


"This is a trustworthy statement; and concerning these things I want you to speak confidently, so that those who have believed God will be careful to engage in good deeds. These things are good and profitable for men. But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned."
- Paul [Titus 3:8-11 NASB]

 

Technically, I am a Particular Baptist.
There is no "Calvinist" denomination and outside of Sotierology (T.U.LI.P.), "Classic Calvinism" (Reformed Theology) teaches Family Covenant (initiated in Acts 2) and Paedobaptism ... neither of which I believe in being a Credobaptist (God saves "believers" rather than the "whole household of a believer").

 

"Multiplication through division" is a time honored Baptist 'distinctive'.

BUT WE ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO SPRINKLE BABIES!

 

I condemn no one. God saves. God has always saved. God will always save. Unlike you, I have no delusions that I have the power to control God. I merely affirm scriptures ...

• "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed."
• “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."
• "For many are called, but few are chosen.”
• When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
  Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
• If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
• What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. As it is written:
  “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
  All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.”
• As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
• And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Limited atonement simply posits that Jesus did not shed blood uselessly for the sinners that SCRIPTURE claims will not be saved. Unlimited atonement posits that Jesus did shed blood for people that will spend eternity in hell. Neither opinion changes who God has saved.

Before claiming all Particular Baptist are unsaved, you should remember the advice to Peter: “Do not call something unclean if God has made it clean.” and the advice from Paul: "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand."

 

Neither is the term "Trinity", or "theology", or "computer" ... heck, there are LOTS of words not in the bible (including "Bible").
That just means that those words are not essential to the Gospel. ("Gospel" or Good News" is in the Bible).

So is "atonement" without the speculative "limited" or "universal" which was the original point that I made in the other topic that led you to quote me and declare Christians that disagree with you on the "universal atonement" to be unsaved.

This is just silly nonsense. Stop before you injure yourself. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Of course Reformed People believe that Jesus died for sin.

 

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
If all sin is forgiven and no sin has been judged in 2000 years, does that mean that no person has died in 2000 years?
It sure sounds like you are advocating UNIVERSALISM here, which is just crazy talk given the clear scripture on judgement and hell and wide paths and narrow gates.

 

So all of human sins are forgiven and eternal conscious torment is the punishment for our failure to be as glorious as God?

What about a few chapters later:
[Romans 10:9-10 NASB] 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

 

[Matthew 12:31 NASB] "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.”

 

How does any of that explain

[Romans 10:9-10 NASB] 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Romans 10 does not say “Sins are not the issue anymore. Glorification is the issue.”