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Featured Does God Want and Desire Obedience?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by utilyan, Aug 22, 2020.

  1. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Does God Want and Desire Obedience?

    Does God Want and Desire for you to sin today?

    Does God Want and Desire for me to sin today?

    Does God Want and Desire for anyone to sin today?

    If God COMMANDS and tells you to your face to paint your house PINK, Does that mean God WANTS and Desires for you to paint it PINK?
     
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  2. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Most Christians know the answer to these questions.

    Matthew 21

    28“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go work today in the vineyard.’ 29“And he answered, ‘I will not’; but afterward he regretted it and went. 30“The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, ‘I will, sir’; but he did not go. 31“Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you.

    Guess who would not have answered.

    Guess who would be clueless about what God wants and desires after he commands you to do something?
     
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  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Gave you two likes.
    BTW

    Do I ever fall short? Daily.
     
  4. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Watch it my post is a TRAP.

    Everyone falls short of God's glory. That tree outside is short of the glory of God. Doesn't mean the tree is a sinner.

    Also you can be completely sinless. still fall short of the glory of God, and still need a savior.

    And when we are in heaven.....we still fall short of the glory of God.

    Jesus explains in a story about slaves:

    Luke 17

    7“Which of you, having a slave plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come immediately and sit down to eat’? 8“But will he not say to him, ‘Prepare something for me to eat, and properly clothe yourself and serve me while I eat and drink; and afterward you may eat and drink’? 9“He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he? 10“So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’”

    So you can be completely sinless, and that is nothing "special" at all. That is just coming back to "normal"


    Do you know the answers to the questions I gave?
     
  5. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Yes.

    None of my business.

    Probably.

    “Get thee behind me Satan!”
    Time to test the spirits before painting your house pink. :)
     
  6. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    God wants and desires your obedience.

    How is it he wants and desires you to sin, since he commands you Love God and Love neighbor?

    When you sin you are disobeying God.

    "None of my business."
    Acts 17

    30“Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,
     
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  7. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    • [Gen 50:20 NASB] 20 "As for you, you meant evil against me, [but] God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.
    • [Rom 8:28 NASB] 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to [His] purpose.
    • [Pro 20:24 NASB] 24 Man's steps are [ordained] by the LORD, How then can man understand his way?
    God's permissive will incorporates man's failures into His plan for my good and His glory.


    • [Rom 14:4 NASB] 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
    • [Jhn 21:21-22 NASB] 21 So Peter seeing him said to Jesus, "Lord, and what about this man?" 22 Jesus said to him, "If I want him to remain until I come, what [is that] to you? You follow Me!"
    You asked me to judge God's will for you, and that is "none of my business". Jesus is more than capable of taking care of you himself (I do not think that I need to share the Good News with you as an unbeliever.) :)
     
  8. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    How about you show me a bible line that says GOD WANTS AND DESIRES FOR YOU TO SIN TODAY?


    I can quote SATAN wanting you to sin today. Show me where it says GOD wants you to sin today.
     
  9. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    One more time ...

    • [Gen 50:20 NASB] 20 "As for you, you meant evil against me, [but] God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.
    • [Rom 8:28 NASB] 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to [His] purpose.
    • [Pro 20:24 NASB] 24 Man's steps are [ordained] by the LORD, How then can man understand his way?
    God's permissive will incorporates man's failures into His plan for my good and His glory.
     
  10. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I asked you if "God desired and wants for you to sin today?". You answer was YES.

    How about you show me a bible line that says GOD WANTS AND DESIRES FOR YOU TO SIN TODAY?

    IF you think those verses answer the question, you should contact a English grammar professional. None of those verses say God desires or wants you to sin.
     
  11. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    It is right next to the verse that says GOD DOES NOT WANT AND DESIRE FOR YOU TO SIN TODAY.

    Show me the verse with those words and I will show you the one right next to it. :Tongue
     
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  12. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    You are in luck, it just so happens that I am an English grammar professional. So let me help you out:

    [Gen 50:20 NASB] 20 "As for you, you meant evil against me, [but] God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.

    The setting is Joseph confronting his brothers about their plan to murder him and their selling him into slavery. Joseph is making the claim that the brothers intended evil against Joseph by their actions (making it a de facto sin). Joseph also claims that God desired (intended) the exact same sinful act for good.

    • There can be no argument that God ALLOWED the brothers’ sinful act even though God had the ability to prevent it.
    • There can be no argument against the reality that the sin of the brothers resulted in much good for Joseph, personally. He became wealthy and powerful and gained a family and learned humility. In addition, the relationship between Joseph and his brothers was healed ... a family split that went back to their mothers and Jacobs dysfunctional household.
    • There can be no doubt that their sin prevented the starvation of both the people of Egypt and the Tribe of Israel. That qualifies as a good that resulted from the sin that God permitted and “meant for good”.
    • These events set the stage for the events of Moses and the Passover, which is one of God’s greatest typologies for the coming Christ and understanding our salvation. Without the sin of the brothers, there would have been no Passover.
    Given all of the above, did God want the brothers to sin and bring God’s redemptive plan to fruition? Yes or No.

    So for a THIRD time ...

    God's permissive will incorporates man's failures into His plan for my good and His glory.
     
  13. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Matthew 22

    37And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38“This is the great and foremost commandment. 39“The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40“On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

    Any sin you commit breaks his first command, you've placed something else in front of God.


    How about you show me a bible line that says GOD WANTS AND DESIRES FOR YOU TO SIN TODAY?

    Sounds like you are looking for a license to sin.
     
  14. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Someone tried to flood my house today. I ran the water to water the flowers then I ran the water through the shower to take a bath. Then later I put a fire out at a neighbors house with the water. That doesn't mean I want people to flood my house. That doesn't mean I called folks up and said hey go flood my house, DESPITE I ALLOWED IT. Doesn't mean I want them to do it.
     
  15. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    That does not say what I asked for.
    Remember, it was YOU who set the ground rules that the quote had to be verbatim when you rejected my scripture that taught what I claimed rather than the words you requested.
     
  16. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Are you really claiming that God did not want Joseph sold into slavery or Israel living in slavery in Egypt and the whole Passover was God just making the best of a plan B spoiled by sinful humans?

    What part of “God meant it for good” do you not understand?
    Did God also not desire the Crucifixion of Jesus (since that was a sin)?
     
  17. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Its verbatim it commands Love God and Love neighbor. Not doing any of these is sin. NOT OBEYING GOD.


    . 37And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38“This is the great and foremost commandment. 39“The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40“On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”


    I asked : Does God Want and Desire Obedience?

    You said "YES".


    Then you claimed God wants YOU to sin today on account how he handled someone else's evil act.
     
  18. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I meant the flooding of my house for good. Does not mean I desired or wanted anyone to flood my house.

    Someone put a dog in my house with the intent it would attack us, I meant it for GOOD, now we have a puppy dog in our family, that doesn't mean I want people to try to kill us with dogs.


    "Did God also not desire the Crucifixion of Jesus (since that was a sin)?"
    He let it happen. Jesus says plainly if he wanted to he could send a legion of angels to stop it, God wanted to make a point, and Jesus rose from the dead. If he had not rose what point would have been made? Paul even tells you if he didn't rise from the dead our faith would be worthless.


    You think things can only go one way only and the response of a person cannot change what will happen?
     
  19. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Yes, according to God’s plan.
     
  20. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    To clarify ABSOLUTE PREDESTINATION?

    You believe God is the PRIME AGENT, Ultimate CAUSE that ORDAINS and determines absolutely all things that will come to pass.

    God Ordained even this exchange between us from beginning to the end. God ordained every good and evil.


    So it would be impossible to have 2 branches in the future. If God says tomorrow a elephant will come and step on you, its a done deal right? There is no IFS on part of your actions.


    God's sovereignty, I believe has the CAPACITY to do this, If he wants to.
     
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