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Featured Does God Want and Desire Obedience?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by utilyan, Aug 22, 2020.

  1. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Omnipotence, Omnipresence, Omniscience.
    So what happens that God did not include in His eternal plan?


    "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive."
    [Genesis 50:20 NASB]
     
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  2. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    1 thes 4.3 For this is the will of God , even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
     
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  3. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    One more time ...
    God's permissive will incorporates man's failures into His plan for my good and His glory.

    "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive." [Genesis 50:20 NASB]
     
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  4. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    How many events here ? one .
     
  5. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    So it would be impossible to have 2 branches in the future. If God says tomorrow a elephant will come and step on you, its a done deal right? There is no IFS on part of your actions.

    In other words do you believe a person cannot shift what God will do or say?
     
  6. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    You get that? ""As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive." [Genesis 50:20 NASB]" = GOD WANTS ME TO SIN.

    NOT SAYING HE IS, but Thats how a narcissist,wife beater, child molester, serial killer Will justify to go about his normal evil routine.

    What are your answers to the original post questions? :D
     
  7. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    II Thess 1:8
     
  8. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Here is my answer in case anyone's curious.

    Does God Want and Desire Obedience?

    Yes.

    Does God Want and Desire for you to sin today?

    No.

    Does God Want and Desire for me to sin today?

    No.

    Does God Want and Desire for anyone to sin today?

    No.

    If God COMMANDS and tells you to your face to paint your house PINK, Does that mean God WANTS and Desires for you to paint it PINK?

    Yes.


    Matthew 5

    19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
     
  9. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

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    My point was on the Joseph account and how some take one event to mean God always does this the same for every event
    .Or He determined this one thing over here ,therefore He determined which socks I decided to wear this morning.
     
  10. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Not what I am saying.
    What I am saying is that is is impossible for an omniscient God to not know which future branch will actually be taken, so the branch that will be taken is part of the eternal plan of God.

    Of course it would be. You are basically asking me if God can prophecy that something will happen and be wrong ... of course what God says will happen, really will happen.

    I never said that.
    There are no decisions that I can make that will come as a surprise to God and derail God’s plans.

    Could you define OMNIPOTENT?
    Could you define OMNISCIENT?
    Could you define OMNIPRESENT?

    I just want to make sure that we are talking about the same God before I seriously attempt to answer if I think that men can control what God will do or say.
     
  11. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Could you define OMNIPOTENT? CAN DO ANYTHING.


    Could you define OMNISCIENT? KNOWS EVERYTHING.

    Could you define OMNIPRESENT? PRESENT EVERYWHERE at the same time.


    Can GOD run a system that is exactly like Calvinists believe it is? I believe he can.

    Can God run a system that is exactly like NON-Calvinist believe? I believe he can.


    I'd like clarification of these things from you too.

    Could God run system is exactly like Muslim believes, a Catholic believes or a NON-Calvinist?

    Could God run a system where beings have FREE WILL (as we understand free will)?

    Could God make a CREATION with FREE CHOICE and capacity of doing what is RIGHT in God's eyes, who can CHOOSE NOT to do what GOD WANTS AND DESIRES them to do?
     
  12. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but He would in some cases then render the Bible false and not be the God described in Scripture.
    • The Muslim "god" did not offer the blood of Christ for our sins.
    • The Catholic "god' may/or may not have "no other God beside me" depending on how far the "Mary as co-redemptrix" movement is taken.
    • Jehovah's Witnesses are "non-Calvinist" ... are there only 144,000 seats available on the train to heaven with the rest restricted to the New Earth based entirely on our good works?
    (as the saying goes, "The devil is in the details")


    Yes.


    Yes.
    Not only CAN He do it, God actually DID do it ... His name was Adam.
    He "CHOSE NOT to do what GOD WANTS AND DESIRES" and left all of us born with the free will to choose whatever we desire (GOOD or EVIL) and a natural desire to ALWAYS choose NOT to do what God wants and desires.

    Calvinism does not teach that people are ROBOTS.
    Calvinism teaches that our Free Will is corrupted by a sinful nature.
    We are UNABLE to do what God command because we are UNWILLING to do so.

    "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed." [John 3:19-20 NASB]

    PS. Good exchange.
     
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