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Faith
- Thread starter AustinC
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to whom God did will to make known what is the riches of the glory of this secret among the nations -- which is Christ in you, the hope of the glory, Col 1:27
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal 2:20
And we -- we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, that God did choose you from the beginning into salvation, in sanctification of Spirit, and to faith (belief) of truth, 2 Thes 2:13
These are great verses, percho. How do they answer the following questions?
When does God place faith into a human being?
Does the Bible tell us when faith enters the heart of a person? If so, what verses would they be?
When He regenerates us!
Any specific verses that connect regeneration with faith?
37818
Well-Known Member
Faith always precedes the regeneration. No exceptions.
To claim such a fiction, without knowing what verse or passage supports it is disingenuous.
What verse says people are given pre-salvation faith? None.
What verses our task is to put our faith in Christ? John 6:29.
On and on, asking when God instills faith is not claiming God instills faith. Right...
All they offer folks is disingenuous nonsense.
One cannot even hear and accept that Jesus is Lord unless regenerated first!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
" But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." ( Galatians 3:22-25 ).
I think that that should answer it, Austin.
I'll break it down according to what I see the passage saying:
1) Who has it = them that believe.
2) When does it come = When the believer comes to Christ.
3) I could maybe list a few more, but this one just popped into my mind for some reason
What do you think?
" But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." ( Galatians 3:22-25 ).
I think that that should answer it, Austin.
I'll break it down according to what I see the passage saying:
1) Who has it = them that believe.
2) When does it come = When the believer comes to Christ.
3) I could maybe list a few more, but this one just popped into my mind for some reason
What do you think?
That reminds me of Hebrews 12:2
looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
This verse tells us that Jesus founded and perfects our faith, however, this verse doesn't tell us when.
The verse you shared expresses that faith isn't within us at birth, but comes later.
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
It then goes on to state that the law brought us to Christ so we might be justified by faith. So it seems that faith comes after the law brings us to Christ.
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."
This begs the question: When does the law bring us to Christ, and how soon does faith come after the law brings us to Christ?
Folks, note that AustinC thinks he can address me and not the topic, but I must address the topic and not him. What did Jesus find wrong with Pharisees?
From post #7:
What verse says people are given pre-salvation faith? None.
What verses our task is to put our faith in Christ? John 6:29.
I won't argue for or against your assertion. I will only ask you when does faith actually come to an individual?
Dave shared from Galatians 3, which says the law brings us to Christ and Christ establishes faith. However, the "when" is the big question.
You claim it's before regeneration. Yeshua says it's after regeneration.
What verses are the basis for your position?
@Yeshua, what verses are your basis for your position?
Dave G
Well-Known Member
We can find the answers in other parts of Scripture, Austin:
" looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." ( Hebrews 12:2 ).
Also, Hebrews 2:10-18 for your consideration.
I agree.
See 2 Thessalonians 3:2.
" in whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, " ( Ephesians 1:13 )?
" But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." ( Galatians 5:22-23 ).
Thoughts?
I'm trying to see the connection in the passage below.
Hebrews 2:10-18
For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering. For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brothers, saying, “I will tell of your name to my brothers; in the midst of the congregation I will sing your praise.” And again, “I will put my trust in him.” And again, “Behold, I and the children God has given me.” Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
The verse, below, establishes that not all person's have faith, which means humans are not born with faith. This agrees with Galatians 3.
2 Thessalonians 3:1-3
Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.
I'm not sure how Ephesians 1:13 comes in to play.
The fruit of the Spirit is faith. Can an unsaved person have that fruit? I say, no. Only a saved child of God can have the fruit of the Spirit. (I see the fruit of the Spirit as a singular fruit with various flavors, of which faith is a flavor. But, that's a different topic.)
Dave G
Well-Known Member
@AustinC
It was fitting that He should make the founder of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
A trial of faith, my friend.
Christ was tried in every way that His brethren would be.
How did He "author and finish" it, except on the cross and in His life, death, burial and resurrection?
Read the passages carefully...
Perhaps I'm seeing something that is not there.
But I don't think so.
It was fitting that He should make the founder of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
A trial of faith, my friend.
Christ was tried in every way that His brethren would be.
How did He "author and finish" it, except on the cross and in His life, death, burial and resurrection?
Read the passages carefully...
Perhaps I'm seeing something that is not there.
But I don't think so.
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The question isn't whether Jesus is the author and finisher of faith. This is stated in the verse. The question is: When did/does Jesus author faith? Is it pre-redemption or post-redemption.@AustinC
It was fitting that He should make the founder of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
A trial of faith, my friend.
Christ was tried in every way that His brethren would be.
How did He "author and finish" it, except on the cross and in His life, death, burial and resurrection?
Read the passages carefully...
Perhaps I'm seeing something that is not there.
But I don't think so.
It seems to me that there have been two brother's in this topic who have expressed one against the other.
Is there scripture that gives us an indication for either position or perhaps for both positions?
I have my opinion, but I don't know that I have definitive verses for one position over the other.
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