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The eternal subordination of the Word.

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Alan Gross

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
To restate my understanding of the eternal subordination. The eternal subordination has to do with the Word's relationship as a Person with God. The Word being the one and the Same God there is never any subordination. The Word has always been both a distinct Person from God being "with the God" and "was God" being one and the same God, so being would be without any kind of subordination being God. The incarnation was a change, John 1:14, not as God but how the Word was "with the God." This is important in understanding the two natures of the Son of God and Him being one Person.
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"The Son" is what you're saying?

"Two natures" is different than I think you want to say.

Jesus is/was God in the Flesh, as we beheld His Glory, as of The Only Begotten Son of The Father, however, His Acceptance to His Role(s) as the Son doesn't change His Being God the Son, the Second Person in The One Divine Nature of the One Eternal Godhead.

This has to do with Jesus' Active and Passive Obedience to His Office, with Respect to The Office of The Father....

....all of which, Jesus is in Perfect Agreement as the Co-Planner of The Eternal Covenant of Grace, the Second Person of The Triune Godhead, Who IS God.
 
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canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
I agree that how He was God did not change in terms of his being, His relationship with the Father, and His relationship in the Trinity.
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Perhaps you would address this question for me?

Did Jesus, during His earthly ministry, not use any of His divine attributes; instead, He only relied on empowerment from God the Father/God Holy Spirit for all miracles?

I know Jesus never ceased to be God.

peace to you
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Alan Gross said:
"The Son" is what you're saying?

"Two natures" is different than I think you want to say.

Jesus is/was God in the Flesh, as we beheld His Glory, as of The Only Begotten Son of The Father, however, His Acceptance to His Role(s) as the Son doesn't change His Being God the Son, the Second Person in The One Divine Nature of the One Eternal Godhead.

This has to do with Jesus' Active and Passive Obedience to His Office, with Respect to The Office of The Father....

....all of which, Jesus is in Perfect Agreement as the Co-Planner of The Eternal Covenant of Grace, the Second Person of The Triune Godhead, Who IS God.
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I meant what I said. I hold the Son of God was always the Son, always the Word, always with the God as tbe Son of God, being always a distinct Person from God and also always the one and the same God too. His incarnation was a change how He was with the God and was not a change from being the one and the same God as His Father. John 1:1-3.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
canadyjd said:
Perhaps you would address this question for me?

Did Jesus, during His earthly ministry, not use any of His divine attributes; instead, He only relied on empowerment from God the Father/God Holy Spirit for all miracles?

I know Jesus never ceased to be God.

peace to you
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I believe that Jesus did not use any of HIs divine attributes but instead did everything through the Spirit.

For example, Jesus did not walk on water on his own accord but through faith (which I believe is indicated in his words to Peter).

So Jesus could have done the miracles by His own power, but He did not do anything of His own accord but remained obedient to do the will of the Father, and I believe by the empowering of the Spirit.
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
I believe that Jesus did not use any of HIs divine attributes but instead did everything through the Spirit.

For example, Jesus did not walk on water on his own accord but through faith (which I believe is indicated in his words to Peter).

So Jesus could have done the miracles by His own power, but He did not do anything of His own accord but remained obedient to do the will of the Father, and I believe by the empowering of the Spirit.
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Thanks. Well stated. I’m tending toward that understanding myself.

What doctrinal implications might be impacted?

peace to you
 
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percho

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I wonder why the Word used, a woman, to send the Word made flesh into the world, a virgin woman, no less.
 
Alan Gross

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
I meant what I said. I hold the Son of God was always the Son, always the Word, always with the God as tbe Son of God, being always a distinct Person from God and also always the one and the same God too. His incarnation was a change how He was with the God and was not a change from being the one and the same God as His Father. John 1:1-3.
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So God is God is God is God and Jesus changed.

The Father Works hitherto and I Work.

"With God".

Whatever you meant what you said, stop it, until you have something to say in words.

The Word became flesh and we beheld His Glory...
 
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Alan Gross

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
percho said:
I wonder why the Word used, a woman, to send the Word made flesh into the world, a virgin woman, no less.
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Let's call her a virgin mother who have birth to a child, and for that reason, because God the Father Elected that child's body to be Indwelt by His Son.

"A body hath thou Prepared for Me".
 
Alan Gross

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
I know you can get a reference to a book of writings on Jesus on your own.

Jesus was The Godhead Bodily.

Jesus Had The Spirit without Measure.

Jesus Will Raise the dead from the bottom of the sea.

Jesus is the Same.

Jesus is Returning any second.

( In Gill's Body of Divinity, here, I will place the last Spiritual Reign of Christ with the same thing as the Session of Christ at the Right Hand of God, because that is what all Bible on The End Times Teaches; with no 'Personal Reign', other than in The New Heaven and The New Earth, although Gill has plenty of other things mixed up into 'the Spiritual Reign', just as any others who do not see Jesus' Return being any second.)

BOOK V.
OF THE GRACE OF CHRIST IN HIS STATES OF HUMILIATION AND EXALTATION, AND IN THE OFFICES EXERCISED BY HIM IN THEM.

Of the Incarnation of Christ †
Of Christ's State of Humiliation †
Of the Active Obedience of Christ †
Of the Passive Obedience of Christ †
Of the Burial of Christ †
Of the Resurrection of Christ †
Of the Ascension of Christ †
Of the Session of Christ at the Right Hand of God †
Of the Prophetic Office of Christ †
Of the Priestly Office of Christ †
Of the Intercession of Christ †
Of Christ's Blessing his People as a Priest †
Of the Kingly Office of Christ †
Of the Spiritual Reign of Christ
 
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Y

Yeshua1

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SavedByGrace said:
I don't think that you really know yourself what you are on about? Jesus Christ IS Almighty God, The Great I AM, YHWH. He also has other Names by which He is known, like "The Word", and in these passages in Revealtion, "The Lamb", as of His Sacrifice for the sins of the human race. The texts that I have shown from Revelation, show that both Jesus Christ, here as "The Lamb", and "God" as in the Father, are JOINT RULERS, as they share the one Throne and have the same power and authority, which makes them BOTH COEQUAL. Therefore there can be NO "subordination" between the Father and Jesus Christ.
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Jesus is called the Alpha and Omega , is that not God?
 
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Yeshua1

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JamesL said:
John 5:19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.

That seems to suggest subordination. So does this one...

John 5:30 “I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
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Yes, but was spoken while in the limitation of the flesh in the Incarnation though!
 
Y

Yeshua1

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37818 said:
I meant what I said. I hold the Son of God was always the Son, always the Word, always with the God as tbe Son of God, being always a distinct Person from God and also always the one and the same God too. His incarnation was a change how He was with the God and was not a change from being the one and the same God as His Father. John 1:1-3.
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Jesus is "The God" also, correct?
 
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