The stepping stones of Justification

[MB]

Lol. Whatever.

Back to the OP. Our faith does save us, but it is our faith not because we possess it by nature, but because it is given to us through hearing the word of God. And who knows His voice? His sheep.

This is true. We do have faith from hearing the word. In fact this is the only way we can receive it. That is faith in Christ. Although man can have faith in any thing he wishes to believe. We have faith in Christ because we choose too. We accept it rather than it being shoved down our throats.
Nature did not create man God did this includes everything about man.
MB

 

[MB]

What is faith? (Biblically speaking)

Believing in Christ for Salvation

How does that fit in with Ephesians 2:1-10?

We are saved only when we believe even though we have sinned
Since Grace comes through faith it is only reasonable that Faith must be present for grace to be able to come through it. We should also do good works. Good works include giving of ones self in love most assuredly giving to the poor and down trodden. Notice it say we should do good works although if we do not we are still saved. It is not a commandment to do good works. It is a suggestion.

How does that fit in with the hearts of Acts 2:37 and Acts 16:14? Speaks about

Acts 2:37 is about conviction which is what being pricked in the heart is about. This happens when we are being convinced of Christ. Conviction is most important. Act 16:14 Lydia's heart was opened to the reception of Paul and his message. Note this is not regeneration because she already worshiped God but rather receiving Paul in to her home.
Act 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

How does that fit with John 10 and the extended shepherd/sheep analogy?

If you will notice in verse 9 it says clearly that if any man enters through the door he will be saved
Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.: It explains how we become sheep by entering through Christ the door

How does that fit with John 3 and being "born from above"?

Act_16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
We are born from above by Believing in Jesus Christ. There is no other way such as being regenerated before faith. This simply will not work. We are only born again by believing in Jesus first.
MB

 

[Alan Gross]

Utter nonsense. An absurdity to change the subject.
Did anyone say we possess faith by nature? Nope, so on and on they post falsehood to defend falsehood. Obscene

The stepping stones of Justification
begin with the sinner being Convicted
by The Word of God, for being 'ungodly',
Totally Depraved, with No Ability
to 'have a fantasy', count a bead,
or believe in Santa Claus to Save their soul.

 

[Van]

Lets return to our stepping stones that take us across the torrent of confusion:

Number 1 always starts with God. If God did not provide the grace of His revelation, both in what He has made, and the special revelation in His word, we would not even be able to have faith in God, and as Paul referenced, we might have faith in the "unknown god."

1) God reveals Himself to human kind, in two ways.

2) We are exposed to His declaration of the gospel of Christ. Thus without the work of the Holy Spirit, both in the inspired word, and in His leading of witnesses, we would not know what to put our faith in.

3) Some of those exposed to the gospel are unable to understand it, those who are described as the first soil of Matthew 13.

4) Others, understand the message, but do not commit fully, or do not discard their worldly treasures. These are described as the second and third soil of Matthew 13.

5) A "few" understand the message and fully commit, they go "all in" and therefore love God with all their mind, heart and soul.

6) These few are the ones whose faith God credits as righteousness, and are spiritually placed into Christ, thus these "few" are chosen for salvation.

7) Once God gives an individual to Christ, Christ has promised to not cast out, thus our salvation is eternal.

8) Once in Christ, we are justified, made righteous, forgiven, regenerated, made alive, and given the ministry of reconciliation.

The gospel of Christ

One of the claims of false teachers is that humans lack the capacity to "fully commit" to Christ or anything else. However, during WWI, lots of folks went "over the top" and into "no man's land" facing artillery, snipers, and machine-gun nests. Sounds like full commitment to me.

 

[Van]

Did you hear the one about involvement and commitment? It goes this way: Consider a breakfast of bacon and eggs. The chicken that provided the egg was "involved" in your breakfast, but the hog that provided your bacon was committed to your breakfast.

 

[Alan Gross]

Lets return to our stepping stones that take us across the torrent of confusion:

Number 1 always starts with God. If God did not provide the grace of His revelation, both in what He has made, and the special revelation in His word, we would not even be able to have faith in God, and as Paul referenced, we might have faith in the "unknown god."

1) God reveals Himself to human kind, in two ways.

2) We are exposed to His declaration of the gospel of Christ. Thus without the work of the Holy Spirit, both in the inspired word, and in His leading of witnesses, we would not know what to put our faith in.

3) Some of those exposed to the gospel are unable to understand it, those who are described as the first soil of Matthew 13.

4) Others, understand the message, but do not commit fully, or do not discard their worldly treasures. These are described as the second and third soil of Matthew 13.

5) A "few" understand the message and fully commit, they go "all in" and therefore love God with all their mind, heart and soul.

6) These few are the ones whose faith God credits as righteousness, and are spiritually placed into Christ, thus these "few" are chosen for salvation.

7) Once God gives an individual to Christ, Christ has promised to not cast out, thus our salvation is eternal.

8) Once in Christ, we are justified, made righteous, forgiven, regenerated, made alive, and given the ministry of reconciliation.

The gospel of Christ

One of the claims of false teachers is that humans lack the capacity to "fully commit" to Christ or anything else. However, during WWI, lots of folks went "over the top" and into "no man's land" facing artillery, snipers, and machine-gun nests. Sounds like full commitment to me.

Unless someone was returned to The Garden of Eden, the Experience of Salvation has always included something to be Saved from.

While the text contains the word, "ungodly", the false professions of deceived Arminian Easy Believers never does.

That is all there is to the Fake, Phoney, False, and non-existent 'debate', between pretendingly innocent deluded 'consenters to historical realities', alone, and the ungodly found in Scripture.

 

[atpollard]

Are you ashamed of what you believe? since you don't like hearing it.
MB

It is a little sad to hear the truth of scripture so badly mangled by those intent on destroying strawman of their own making since it renders real conversation ... impossible.

 

[atpollard]

Believing in Christ for Salvation


We are saved only when we believe even though we have sinned
Since Grace comes through faith it is only reasonable that Faith must be present for grace to be able to come through it. We should also do good works. Good works include giving of ones self in love most assuredly giving to the poor and down trodden. Notice it say we should do good works although if we do not we are still saved. It is not a commandment to do good works. It is a suggestion.


Acts 2:37 is about conviction which is what being pricked in the heart is about. This happens when we are being convinced of Christ. Conviction is most important. Act 16:14 Lydia's heart was opened to the reception of Paul and his message. Note this is not regeneration because she already worshiped God but rather receiving Paul in to her home.
Act 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.



If you will notice in verse 9 it says clearly that if any man enters through the door he will be saved
Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.: It explains how we become sheep by entering through Christ the door


Act_16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
We are born from above by Believing in Jesus Christ. There is no other way such as being regenerated before faith. This simply will not work. We are only born again by believing in Jesus first.
MB

So when the Gospel is proclaimed to a group, why are some saved and others not saved? Are those who “believe” BETTER because they made the personal choice to believe (due to a better inner nature)? If not, then what is the difference?

You have been abundantly clear about rejecting the Reformed answer, but trying to understand your alternative seems like trying to nail jello to the wall.

 

[Van]

Unless someone was returned to The Garden of Eden, the Experience of Salvation has always included something to be Saved from.

While the text contains the word, "ungodly", the false professions of deceived Arminian Easy Believers never does.

That is all there is to the Fake, Phoney, False, and non-existent 'debate', between pretendingly innocent deluded 'consenters to historical realities', alone, and the ungodly found in Scripture.

Why are you not addressing the topic of the thread. No one would know they are "ungodly" unless their condition was revealed by God.

 

[Aaron]

This is true. We do have faith from hearing the word. In fact this is the only way we can receive it. That is faith in Christ. Although man can have faith in any thing he wishes to believe. We have faith in Christ because we choose too. We accept it rather than it being shoved down our throats.

You're still describing a faith that a man possesses by nature, and not a faith that is imparted to the sheep. So, no. We're not talking about the same thing at all.

But would you call the life of a child born something "shoved down its throat?" That you call the Second Birth something like that shows you have very little understanding of what is going on when someone is saved.

Nature did not create man God did this includes everything about man.
MB

No one said it did. God did not create men with faith. Adam and Eve did not walk by faith in their innocence, and whether or not it was imparted to them at the preaching of the coming of the Seed of the Woman is anyone's guess. You were not created with faith, and you are not born with it. But even if Adam and Eve were created with faith, or the natural capacity therefore, what God created is corrupted now. Why do you allude to the creation of the mind as if that somehow sanctifies or hallows it. It's corrupt and evil and weak. It's at enmity with God.

 

[Aaron]

Did anyone say we possess faith by nature?

Of course you did. It permeates your OP. Every time you use the term "our faith" you're alluding to something you think you possess by nature.

 

[Van]

Of course you did. It permeates your OP. Every time you use the term "our faith" you're alluding to something you think you possess by nature.

Calvinists love to put words into their opponents mouths, to change the subject. Thus the presenters of falsehood have in my opinion have turned away from truth.

When scripture refers to an individual's faith (his faith, your faith, etc) Aaron doctrine rewrites it to say "your God instilled via irresistible grace faith." Thus denial of scripture "permeates" their every post.

 

[Aaron]

When scripture refers to an individual's faith (his faith, your faith, etc) Aaron doctrine rewrites it to say "your God instilled via irresistible grace faith." Thus denial of scripture "permeates" their every post.

Van: No one said anyone has faith by nature.

Aaron: Yes you did. In the OP

Van: Well ... er... umm....stop rewriting Scripture, you false, obscene Calvinist! It says it's 'your faith.' It couldn't come from God in a supernatural way...except by ... er ... ummm.... creation! ... which would mean...uhhhh...by nature! You SCRIPTURE DENIER YOU!!!

Aaron: Oh, so you DID say people have faith by nature.

No matter how you slice it, Van-ity, you're coming up election by merit.

Concerning faith: we know not all men possess it, so what is its source?

 

[Van]

Van: No one said anyone has faith by nature.
Aaron: Yes you did. In the OP
Van: Well ... er... umm....stop rewriting Scripture, you false, obscene Calvinist! It says it's 'your faith.' It couldn't come from God in a supernatural way...except by ... er ... ummm.... creation! ... which would mean...uhhhh...by nature! You SCRIPTURE DENIER YOU!!!
Aaron: Oh, so you DID say people have faith by nature.

No matter how you slice it, Van-ity, you're coming up election by merit.
Concerning faith: we know not all men possess it, so what is its source?

Note the Calvinist simply doubles down on falsehood. They seem unable to turn toward truth. So sad

 

[Aaron]

Note the Calvinist simply doubles down on falsehood. They seem unable to turn toward truth. So sad

Gotchya by the boys, Van. Just admit it.

 

[Alan Gross]

Why are you not addressing the topic of the thread. No one would know they are "ungodly" unless their condition was revealed by God.

Arminians assume "Jesus Took Care of sin" for everyone and, in effect, placed everyone back under Probation in The Garden of Eden, with sin being no issue.

They then say they want to play with how they will be brilliant enough to step up and declare their Justification and The Magnificence of their "Belief", to OUTDO ADAM and his stupid choice to eat of the Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil.

This Eternally Fatal Position of being a dead in trespasses and sins, wretched sinner, by Nature, habit, and choice, leaves them dead in trespasses and sins, deceived, weighed in the balance and left wanting.

 

[Van]

Gotchya by the boys, Van. Just admit it.

Note the pathetic effort to make me the subject. They deny scripture then change the subject.

 

[Van]

Arminians assume "Jesus Took Care of sin" for everyone and, in effect, placed everyone back under Probation in The Garden of Eden, with sin being no issue.

They then say they want to play with how they will be brilliant enough to step up and declare their Justification and The Magnificence of their "Belief", to OUTDO ADAM and his stupid choice to eat of the Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil.

This Eternally Fatal Position of being a dead in trespasses and sins, wretched sinner, by Nature, habit, and choice, leaves them dead in trespasses and sins, deceived, weighed in the balance and left wanting.

On and on they flail at windmills, addressing imaginary issues they manufacture.

Lets return to our stepping stones that take us across the torrent of confusion:

Number 1 always starts with God. If God did not provide the grace of His revelation, both in what He has made, and the special revelation in His word, we would not even be able to have faith in God, and as Paul referenced, we might have faith in the "unknown god."

1) God reveals Himself to human kind, in two ways.

2) We are exposed to His declaration of the gospel of Christ. Thus without the work of the Holy Spirit, both in the inspired word, and in His leading of witnesses, we would not know what to put our faith in.

3) Some of those exposed to the gospel are unable to understand it, those who are described as the first soil of Matthew 13.

4) Others, understand the message, but do not commit fully, or do not discard their worldly treasures. These are described as the second and third soil of Matthew 13.

5) A "few" understand the message and fully commit, they go "all in" and therefore love God with all their mind, heart and soul.

6) These few are the ones whose faith God credits as righteousness, and are spiritually placed into Christ, thus these "few" are chosen for salvation.

7) Once God gives an individual to Christ, Christ has promised to not cast out, thus our salvation is eternal.

8) Once in Christ, we are justified, made righteous, forgiven, regenerated, made alive, and given the ministry of reconciliation.

The gospel of Christ

 

[Yeshua1]

Almost all Christians would claim to believe we were justified by faith, and perhaps quote Romans 3:28, which says we are justified by faith and not by the works of the Law. If pressed, many Christians would define “works of the law” as the actions we take to conform to the requirements of the Law, rather than what the “law” actually accomplishes, which is to make us aware of our sin and lead us to Christ.

So lets back up and ask the question, justified by whose faith? Does our faith justify us? If we took a poll, would not a large group, perhaps even a majority, say our faith justifies us? But that would be a works based salvation would it not. Ah but you say faith is not a work.

Maybe we should back up again and consider “justified by whom?” Were we justified by what we did or by what Christ did on the cross? The free gift of justification to life was provided by Christ on the cross, Romans 5:18. So it was Christ’s faithfulness, even unto death on the cross, which provided the propitiation for the whole world. So then the question becomes, how did we “receive” that gift or have that gift applied to us individually?

So it would seem, then that our faith in Christ provides access to Christ’s free gift of justification by the grace of God. But does that too miss the mark? I think so. Would not our faith in effect “save us” then and make us the actual architect of our salvation?

So if our placing our faith in Christ does not automatically save us, then God must credit our faith as righteousness and spiritually place us “in Christ” which saves us because in Christ we receive the justification to life provided by Christ. Wow now that is a systematic theology that fits with all scripture.

What justifies us is the death and resurrection of Lord Jesus period!

 

[atpollard]

Concerning faith: we know not all men possess it, so what is its source?

This is the question.

(I know it "comes from hearing the Word", but not all that hear the word gain FAITH and are saved ... so WHAT IS ITS SOURCE?)