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The stepping stones of Justification
- Thread starter Van
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Yet another subject change, another desperate dive into the Old Covenant.
Next the power to believe or not to believe to walk the talk or not walk the talk, is questioned. Nonsense.
Next, the folks of Hebrews 11 are denied. I kid you not.
And all of this obfuscation for the purpose of denying Romans 4. So sad.
Yet another denial of Romans 4. Note the effort to change the subject from what scripture says, God credited his faith as righteousness, to some undefined misread. LOL
Just for the record, here is another tilting at windmills post, no one said righteousness is the same as faith. Obfuscation on display. Next we get the claim, God would need to credit "perfect faith" as righteousness. Perfect faith is righteous faith, folks!
Folks, no need to read it again. Romans 4 says God credited "his faith" not God given and instilled by irresistible grace faith.
I am sorry if you can't understand Philippians 2:13 is talking about post-salvation individuals, indwelt with the Holy Spirit, and therefore is non-germane to God crediting our faith as righteousness Before salvation.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
You implied they were the interchangable in your earlier post and explicitly state that "Perfect faith is righteous faith" in your response.
You ARE equating having PERFECT FAITH (something that Romans 4 never even discusses one way or the other) with BEING RIGHTEOUS.
Your false denial and shifting to the attack when the issue is pointed out to you is also obvious to all of the "folks" you are addressing from your soapbox.
More false charges, more absurdity. Yes, faith and righteousness are not the same thing, perfect faith and righteous faith are the same thing. Stop presenting falsehood
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Romans 3:21-31 NASB
This ends Chapter 3 and sets up Chapter 4 as an explanation of how this "law of faith" establishes the Law of works on the OT.
Note that nowhere in this Holy Spirit inspired explanation of God's grace, was Paul inspired to discuss the importance of our cooperation, decision and personal contribution. Quite the contrary, Paul and God emphasize that men have nothing about which to boast except how great is the grace of our God. The focus constantly returns to God (the Father, Son and Spirit) and what THEY want, do, did or shall do.
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
This ends Chapter 3 and sets up Chapter 4 as an explanation of how this "law of faith" establishes the Law of works on the OT.
Note that nowhere in this Holy Spirit inspired explanation of God's grace, was Paul inspired to discuss the importance of our cooperation, decision and personal contribution. Quite the contrary, Paul and God emphasize that men have nothing about which to boast except how great is the grace of our God. The focus constantly returns to God (the Father, Son and Spirit) and what THEY want, do, did or shall do.
Yet another "taint so" post, but not one word as to what is unrighteous about perfect faith, or what is imperfect about faith declared righteous.
Have you noted the concerted effort to derail discussion of the stepping stones to justification.
The stepping stones to justification do not include the fiction of "the gift of faith via irresistible grace." If God had instilled the "gift of faith" He would not need to credit our faith as righteousness.
No one is going to explain why God credits our faith as righteousness, after He instills His faith into us. There is no answer, the premise of instilled faith is a fiction.
Lets return to our stepping stones that take us across the torrent of confusion:
Number 1 always starts with God. If God did not provide the grace of His revelation, both in what He has made, and the special revelation in His word, we would not even be able to have faith in God, and as Paul referenced, we might have faith in the "unknown god."
1) God reveals Himself to human kind, in two ways.
2) We are exposed to His declaration of the gospel of Christ. Thus without the work of the Holy Spirit, both in the inspired word, and in His leading of witnesses, we would not know what to put our faith in.
3) Some of those exposed to the gospel are unable to understand it, those who are described as the first soil of Matthew 13.
4) Others, understand the message, but do not commit fully, or do not discard their worldly treasures. These are described as the second and third soil of Matthew 13.
5) A "few" understand the message and fully commit, they go "all in" and therefore love God with all their mind, heart and soul.
6) These few are the ones whose faith God credits as righteousness, and are spiritually placed into Christ, thus these "few" are chosen for salvation.
7) Once God gives an individual to Christ, Christ has promised to not cast out, thus our salvation is eternal.
8) Once in Christ, we are justified, made righteous, forgiven, regenerated, made alive, and given the ministry of reconciliation.
The gospel of Christ
The stepping stones to justification do not include the fiction of "the gift of faith via irresistible grace." If God had instilled the "gift of faith" He would not need to credit our faith as righteousness.
No one is going to explain why God credits our faith as righteousness, after He instills His faith into us. There is no answer, the premise of instilled faith is a fiction.
Lets return to our stepping stones that take us across the torrent of confusion:
Number 1 always starts with God. If God did not provide the grace of His revelation, both in what He has made, and the special revelation in His word, we would not even be able to have faith in God, and as Paul referenced, we might have faith in the "unknown god."
1) God reveals Himself to human kind, in two ways.
2) We are exposed to His declaration of the gospel of Christ. Thus without the work of the Holy Spirit, both in the inspired word, and in His leading of witnesses, we would not know what to put our faith in.
3) Some of those exposed to the gospel are unable to understand it, those who are described as the first soil of Matthew 13.
4) Others, understand the message, but do not commit fully, or do not discard their worldly treasures. These are described as the second and third soil of Matthew 13.
5) A "few" understand the message and fully commit, they go "all in" and therefore love God with all their mind, heart and soul.
6) These few are the ones whose faith God credits as righteousness, and are spiritually placed into Christ, thus these "few" are chosen for salvation.
7) Once God gives an individual to Christ, Christ has promised to not cast out, thus our salvation is eternal.
8) Once in Christ, we are justified, made righteous, forgiven, regenerated, made alive, and given the ministry of reconciliation.
The gospel of Christ
atpollard
Well-Known Member
When I explain, you accuse me of attempting to derail and when I avoid derailing, you accuse me of failing to explain.
Put on your big boy panties and look up the definition of "perfect" and "righteous" for yourself and you will see that "perfect faith" and "righteous faith" mean different things.
It was just a simple statement of fact.
Folks, note the endless fount of false charges against those who present truth. Calvinists hurl slanderous labels at their opponents, here a Deist, there an Arminian, and next I will be called a Pelican, with wings flapping salt water.
It is nonsense, pure and simple. Note how he divided perfect from perfect faith, and righteous for righteous faith, to obfuscate.
This is all they have folks, falsehood defending falsehood.
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