Have we turned the sinner's prayer into a sacrament???

[SavedByGrace]

No, rather suggesting that they were the ones that wanted to see Jesus crucified , and so peter address them to repent of that sin and turn to their Messiah now!

You cannot be serious? There is no evidence for what you are saying. Jesus told Peter and everyone else in Luke 24.47 what is required for salvation. Peters words are almost exactly what Jesus said in Luke

 

[lanman87]

So repentance and faith is required before the sinner can be saved

A saving faith is required. Any true saving faith will be lived out in a life of repentance.

We have to be careful when saying "repentance is required" because that hints at a theology where we save ourselves by our actions. It is relying on our personal holiness instead of trusting in the work of Christ and what He did for us on the cross.

We don't ever want to give people the impression that going to church and being a good person (trying not to sin) saves them.

True repentance isn't just turning from sin. It is turning from ourselves and giving our entire self to Christ. And that happens when we come to faith and it keeps happening as we live by faith. If it doesn't happen, or at least if we are struggling against our selfishness and sinful and rebellious ways, then we have no right to say we believe/have faith.

 

[SavedByGrace]

We have to be careful when saying "repentance is required" because that hints at a theology where we save ourselves by our actions

not so! repentance is the sinner obeying the Just requirement of the Lord for their salvation. It is not a "work" as though "earned", as there is no "merit" to the sinner in doing this. Notice what those who heared Peter preach in Acts chapter to say, "what must we DO?". Peter did not tell them, "you DO nothing", but, instead said, "REPEN... for the forgiveness of your sins". The Reformed/Calvinists are in error by making "repentance" a "work", when it is not!

 

[lanman87]

repentance is the sinner obeying the Just requirement of the Lord for their salvation.

We are save by grace, through faith, not of ourselves, it is the gift of God. (Eph 2:8-9) If repentance is requirement that is separate from faith then the "not of ourselves" part is nullified. If repentance is a result of grace through faith then faith becomes reason for salvation and repentance a fruit or necessary consequence of salvation.

In truth, they are not separated. Faith without repentance isn't faith.

 

[SavedByGrace]

We are save by grace, through faith, not of ourselves, it is the gift of God. (Eph 2:8-9) If repentance is requirement that is separate from faith then the "not of ourselves" part is nullified. If repentance is a result of grace through faith then faith becomes reason for salvation and repentance a fruit or necessary consequence of salvation.

In truth, they are not separated. Faith without repentance isn't faith.

then WHY did Jesus Christ, Command this very thing in Luke 24:47? This is NOT only for Jews, or under the Old Testament, but the Gospel Message for the salvation of lost sinners. Peter did just what Jesus Commanded in Acts chapter 2, where he told those who sought salvation, that they must REPENT. This is the Gospel Way which even many of the Reformed theologians have taught over the years, but has been hijacked by "moderns".

The Necessity of Repentance - by Arthur W. Pink

Faith & Repentance

REPENTANCE

 

[lanman87]

hen WHY did Jesus Christ, Command this very thing in Luke 24:47?

I need to backup and ask you exactly what you mean by "Repent"? When Jesus commands men to repent, what do you think He is asking them to do?

Edit-- I re-read one of your post. You said, "repentance is the sinner obeying the Just requirement of the Lord for their salvation". I have a question (or two) Is this obedience and outward act (something we do)? Or is it and inward change of heart?

Come to think of it, I guess I still have the same question. What do you mean understand "repent" to mean?

 

[lanman87]

then WHY did Jesus Christ, Command this very thing in Luke 24:47? This is NOT only for Jews, or under the Old Testament, but the Gospel Message for the salvation of lost sinners. Peter did just what Jesus Commanded in Acts chapter 2, where he told those who sought salvation, that they must REPENT. This is the Gospel Way which even many of the Reformed theologians have taught over the years, but has been hijacked by "moderns".

The Necessity of Repentance - by Arthur W. Pink

Faith & Repentance

REPENTANCE

Anyway, you taken this thread in a different direction that was intended. The original question was about how we see the "Sinner's Prayer". ,

Do we say the sinner's prayer in order to be saved or do we say it as an initial expression of faith when we have already been saved?

The role of repentance and what exactly repentance means is an interesting topic, but it wasn't the topic of this thread.

Any future replies of mine on this topic will be in the thread you started earlier.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

Having repented and believed, calling on the name of the Lord in prayer brings forgiveness from Him.

 

[lanman87]

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

Having repented and believed, calling on the name of the Lord in prayer brings forgiveness from Him.

Is it possible to do those things without saying the "sinner's prayer"?

Does saying the sinner's prayer automatically mean you've believed and repented?

 

[Revmitchell]

In the middles ages the Catholic church changed the definition of a sacrament to be something that gives grace instead of something the is a sign or signified a given grace. Which is one reason we Baptist use the word ordinance instead of sacrament. Because we see Baptism and the Lord's Supper as "an outward sign of an inner grace". It is our, (at least my) understanding that all grace comes through faith, not sacraments presided over by a priest or pastor. And that participation in the life of the church through prayer, study, worship, serving, giving, and the ordinances are means of grace only in that they grow and strengthen our faith. God changes who we are and that in turn changes what we do.

But as I've read through some of the threads on this forum it occurred to me that perhaps we Baptist (and Evangelicals in general) have turned the Sinner's Prayer into a Sacrament. By this I mean we believe that "saying the sinner's prayer" has become the means of Salvation instead of a sign of Salvation. And maybe the goal of evangelism has become to get people to say the "sinner's prayer" instead of leading them to a deep and abiding faith in Christ.

While we don't use the term sacrament, it seems to me that our usage of the sinner's prayer has become a sacrament of sorts. In that many see it as how we are saved instead of a sign of God's grace which has already worked to change our heart from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh.

Thoughts????

My thought is which post specifically has done this?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Is it possible to do those things without saying the "sinner's prayer"?

Does saying the sinner's prayer automatically mean you've believed and repented?

Is it possible to do those things without saying the "sinner's prayer"?

Does saying the sinner's prayer automatically mean you've believed and repented?

Although Scripture provides several suggestive and instructive examples, Scripture does not specify exactly what must be prayed to God in order to be saved.

No, of course, saying "the sinner's prayer" does not automatically mean that a person has believed and repented.

 

[Van]

complete rubbish!

Yet another taint so post devoid of any topical content. This is all they have folks, deny, deny and deny obvious truth.

The "do this and you are saved folks" do not mention it is God alone who sets people apart in Christ by reason of Him crediting their wholehearted faith as righteousness. Any other view is, to coin a phrase, "complete rubbish."

 

[lanman87]

Although Scripture provides several suggestive and instructive examples, Scripture does not specify exactly what must be prayed to God in order to be saved.

No, of course, saying "the sinner's prayer" does not automatically mean that a person has believed and repented.

Should we be assuring people who come forward and say the sinners prayer that they are saved?

 

[Dave G]

In the middles ages the Catholic church changed the definition of a sacrament to be something that gives grace instead of something the is a sign or signified a given grace.

I think it stems from a misunderstanding of what grace actually is...
The Lord's unmerited favor towards a person.

And that participation in the life of the church through prayer, study, worship, serving, giving, and the ordinances are means of grace only in that they grow and strengthen our faith.

I agree, to an extent.
To me, all of these things are a result, not a means.

From my perspective, too many people, especially nowadays, turn all of these into things they do for God to either gain His favor, or keep it.

God changes who we are and that in turn changes what we do.

Amen.

But as I've read through some of the threads on this forum it occurred to me that perhaps we Baptist (and Evangelicals in general) have turned the Sinner's Prayer into a Sacrament. By this I mean we believe that "saying the sinner's prayer" has become the means of Salvation instead of a sign of Salvation. And maybe the goal of evangelism has become to get people to say the "sinner's prayer" instead of leading them to a deep and abiding faith in Christ.

IMO, that's been a major problem for a lot longer than you and I have been alive.

While we don't use the term sacrament, it seems to me that our usage of the sinner's prayer has become a sacrament of sorts. In that many see it as how we are saved instead of a sign of God's grace which has already worked to change our heart from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh.

In the church I grew up in and the churches we associated with, the teachings were pretty much all the same:

While they taught the necessity of the new birth, they also taught, in tandem, the necessity of a conscious choice of the sinner to repent and believe;
But that isn't where it ended...
They also taught that these two acts then led to that change of heart, instead of them being a result of God changing the heart.

So, in my opinion, the "sinner's prayer", when all is said and done, does indeed function as the "hinge" to many;
In that it is often treated as the determiner for, and not the evidence of God's changing someone's heart.

I've seen it referred to as "decisional regeneration" in some circles, and it may have other names in other places.

 

[Dave G]

Someone can say a sinner's prayer 1,000 times and never repent and someone can repent without ever saying the sinners prayer.

I agree.
From my point of view, someone can say ( or be coached into saying ) "the sinner's prayer" an untold number of times, and never actually be born again.

Should we be assuring people who come forward and say the sinners prayer that they are saved?

Tough question, IMO.

As I see it, we should carefully deal with the person who has professed faith in Christ, to determine whether or not they truly are born again.
In light of passages such as Matthew 13 ( the parables of the sower and tares ) and Romans 8 ( which tells us that if a person does not have the Holy Spirit, then they are none of Christ's ), this issue should be approached with much discernment, patience and sobriety.

 

[Dave G]

Does prayer save them? Or does Christ save them?

Christ does ( John 17:2 ).

Cans someone be saved even if they never say a "sinners prayer"?

Peter, Paul and the rest of the Lord's apostles never preached or taught any such thing, so I'd say, "yes".

See Acts of the Apostles 2, 16 and 17 for examples.

 

[lanman87]

My thought is which post specifically has done this?

Mainly the threads on "easy believism". That is a term I've hear only in passing through the years and I have never looked it up. Which is why I asked a question in that thread (BTW nobody ever answered my question).

That coupled with my experiences in church, where we invite people to come forward say "get saved" with instructions to repeat the sinner's prayer and make a public profession of faith. When people do those things we get all excited and tell them they are saved and going to heaven.

Another thing that brought that to my mind is that for the past three years or so I've been studying Catholicism. The short story is that my son married a Catholic girl and I wanted to be able to have a conversation with my son from a position of knowledge.

Anyway, when I was reading the easy believism thread it kinda clicked in my head that maybe we've turned the sinner's prayer into a type of sacrament. Whereby the sinner's prayer is the cause of salvation instead the result of having been saved. In a similar way that Catholics believe baptism is the cause of (initial) salvation and not the result of having been saved.

I hope that answers your question.

 

[Yeshua1]

Does prayer save them? Or does Christ save them?

Cans someone be saved even if they never say a "sinners prayer"?

yes, saved by Grace of God, what if born a mute?

 

[Yeshua1]

A saving faith is required. Any true saving faith will be lived out in a life of repentance.

We have to be careful when saying "repentance is required" because that hints at a theology where we save ourselves by our actions. It is relying on our personal holiness instead of trusting in the work of Christ and what He did for us on the cross.

We don't ever want to give people the impression that going to church and being a good person (trying not to sin) saves them.

True repentance isn't just turning from sin. It is turning from ourselves and giving our entire self to Christ. And that happens when we come to faith and it keeps happening as we live by faith. If it doesn't happen, or at least if we are struggling against our selfishness and sinful and rebellious ways, then we have no right to say we believe/have faith.

Hoiw much repenting did the thief and paul do, as both seemed to be instant saved!

 

[Revmitchell]

Mainly the threads on "easy believism". That is a term I've hear only in passing through the years and I have never looked it up. Which is why I asked a question in that thread (BTW nobody ever answered my question).

That coupled with my experiences in church, where we invite people to come forward say "get saved" with instructions to repeat the sinner's prayer and make a public profession of faith. When people do those things we get all excited and tell them they are saved and going to heaven.

Another thing that brought that to my mind is that for the past three years or so I've been studying Catholicism. The short story is that my son married a Catholic girl and I wanted to be able to have a conversation with my son from a position of knowledge.

Anyway, when I was reading the easy believism thread it kinda clicked in my head that maybe we've turned the sinner's prayer into a type of sacrament. Whereby the sinner's prayer is the cause of salvation instead the result of having been saved. In a similar way that Catholics believe baptism is the cause of (initial) salvation and not the result of having been saved.

I hope that answers your question.

No one believes it is the cause not even in that thread.