Have we turned the sinner's prayer into a sacrament???

[Scripture More Accurately]

Once again a poster invents an unbiblical position, and claims it is my position without a quote. This tactic of endless false charges is calculated to derail any discussion of the actual biblical view presented.

1) He denies we are to test ourselves to see if we are of the faith, after 2 Corinthians 13:5 was cited. Thus denial of the obvious and assertion of absurdity.

2) Next, if we think we passed the test once, there is no need to test subsequently, again presenting absurdity rather than scripture.

3) This poster ignores progressive sanctification as if he did not believe in it.

My comments do not have anything to do with ignoring progressive sanctification. Progressive sanctification does not have anything to do with knowing whether I am saved or not. This is your asserting something bogus about me without any basis.

You have not proved that 2 Cor. 13:5 teaches that we must test ourselves over and over again. Asserting something does not prove it. In fact, you have not even established what 2 Cor. 13:5 is teaching in its context.

I did not deny that we have to assess if our belief is genuine. I hold that what you make it out to be is false.

 

[Judith]

In the middles ages the Catholic church changed the definition of a sacrament to be something that gives grace instead of something the is a sign or signified a given grace. Which is one reason we Baptist use the word ordinance instead of sacrament. Because we see Baptism and the Lord's Supper as "an outward sign of an inner grace". It is our, (at least my) understanding that all grace comes through faith, not sacraments presided over by a priest or pastor. And that participation in the life of the church through prayer, study, worship, serving, giving, and the ordinances are means of grace only in that they grow and strengthen our faith. God changes who we are and that in turn changes what we do.

But as I've read through some of the threads on this forum it occurred to me that perhaps we Baptist (and Evangelicals in general) have turned the Sinner's Prayer into a Sacrament. By this I mean we believe that "saying the sinner's prayer" has become the means of Salvation instead of a sign of Salvation. And maybe the goal of evangelism has become to get people to say the "sinner's prayer" instead of leading them to a deep and abiding faith in Christ.

While we don't use the term sacrament, it seems to me that our usage of the sinner's prayer has become a sacrament of sorts. In that many see it as how we are saved instead of a sign of God's grace which has already worked to change our heart from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh.

Thoughts????

No one gets saved by a sinners prayer.
Don’t be fooled! Don’t be one of those who will be turned away on that day when men stand before the Lord. The way is narrow and the road is straight FEW be that find it.



Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.



Verse 22 MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?



Verse 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it.



If we want forgiveness. If we want to go to heaven we must understand the following. We DO NOT get saved (go to heaven), get right with God, forgiven, by being good, by being religious, by praying a prayer, being baptized, asking Jesus into our hearts, accepting Jesus as our personal Saviour, confessing our sins, joining a church, cleaning up our lives, doing penance, taking the bread and the wine, or doing all these thing accumulative.



Salvation takes repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, Acts 20:21. Make no mistake. We cannot be a friend of Christ and remain a rebel against God. The word repent, from the Greek word “metanoia”, means a change of mind or direction. That change is not 50%, 75%, or 99%. It is 100% or we are not repenting.



God is not receiving those who almost or kind of repent. It is like the word about face which is a 180 degree turn. We turn from not wanting God fully in our lives to accepting Him fully in our lives.



When any person comes to the place where they are broken over their sin to the point they want to get right with God no matter what it will cost them they are in a state/spirit of repentance toward God.

We then take that heart we have towards God and place it on the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord and Master and that becomes faith. At that moment God’s grace through Christ is applied to us and we are born again, saved from eternal hell and sealed by the Spirit so that we will never again return to the practice of sinning. 1John 3:9,10.



Our first command after salvation is to be baptized.


Repentance of sin is the result of the new birth/salvation and will be part of the sanctification process and our new life with the Lord Jesus Christ, Eph 2:10. While we may sin from time to time after salvation it will not be our practice 1John 3:9,10.



John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.



REV. 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Five years ago, I undertook a short 'Bible Blitz' with the Gideons in the country of Lesotho.
We gave out over 50,000 Bibles and New Testaments in just over a week, and had the opportunity to speak to many, many children in the dozens of schools we visited.
Apart from myself, all the other members of the blitz team were Americans, and one particularly stands out in my mind. Most of us, when talking to the youngsters, spoke of the need to be saved, the Person and work of Christ, encouraged them to read their NTs, to look up the 'helps' and follow the daily readings, but this chap seemed only to want them to read the Sinner's Prayer and to sign their names at the back of the Testament. He didn't seem too bothered whether they read the book or not!

No doubt everyone who is saved says some sort of prayer of commitment, but it is not the prayer that saves, nor one's signature at the bottom, but repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Van]

My comments do not have anything to do with ignoring progressive sanctification. Progressive sanctification does not have anything to do with knowing whether I am saved or not. This is your asserting something bogus about me without any basis.

You have not proved that 2 Cor. 13:5 teaches that we must test ourselves over and over again. Asserting something does not prove it. In fact, you have not even established what 2 Cor. 13:5 is teaching in its context.

I did not deny that we have to assess if our belief is genuine. I hold that what you make it out to be is false.

Yet another taint so denial of the obvious!

1) Progressive sanctification requires that we evaluate our walk, confess our missteps and strive to follow Christ every day.

2) How often should we test ourselves to see if we are of the faith? Who is saved, those that endure for a little while, or those who endure to the end? How do we know we are enduring to the end if we ignore our walk and engage in lawlessness?

3) The issue is not what I "make it out to be" but what scripture teaches.

Luke 9:23
And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

Galatians 6:4
But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another.

1Thessalonians 5:21
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;

 

[lanman87]

Progressive sanctification does not have anything to do with knowing whether I am saved or not

Is it possible to actually be saved without some evidence of ongoing sanctification? I guess another way of asking that is, "Is is possible to have genuine saving faith without being faithful?".

 

[Yeshua1]

Another consideration is that we are not "Christ" we cannot know the innermost being of anyone. All we can do is make presumptions based on a combination of what they say and what they do. Ultimately, each of us must "test overselves" to see if we are in the faith.

I am on my church Pastoral prayer team, and we always try to ask the person to them what being saved now means, trying to confirm their salvation really happened and to encourage them

 

[Yeshua1]

Is it possible to actually be saved without some evidence of ongoing sanctification? I guess another way of asking that is, "Is is possible to have genuine saving faith without being faithful?".

Yes, for a season, as look at peter who denied his very Lord but did come back fully restored!

 

[lanman87]

Yes, for a season, as look at peter who denied his very Lord but did come back fully restored!

What about permanently?

 

[Yeshua1]

What about permanently?

No saved person will be found permanently practicing sinning, and no conviction nor remorse nor repenting nor confessing of their sins.
Can be a long season though!

 

[atpollard]

1) Progressive sanctification requires that we evaluate our walk, confess our missteps and strive to follow Christ every day.

Only if WE are the one doing the sanctifying. (Philippians 2:13)

 

[Van]

Only if WE are the one doing the sanctifying. (Philippians 2:13)

Complete rubbish. We are trying to follow Christ, thus growing more like Christ in our walk, and in order to do that we must evaluate our walk, confess our shortcomings, and strive to do better. And of course, we are to listen to our indwelt Spirit as we evaluate our walk
John 14:26
“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

John 16:8
“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Is it possible to actually be saved without some evidence of ongoing sanctification? I guess another way of asking that is, "Is is possible to have genuine saving faith without being faithful?".

Jesus told Zaccheus that salvation had come to his house that very day that he responded to Jesus' dealings with him:

Luke 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

Zaccheus therefore knew infallibly that he was genuinely saved. He did not have to think, well, I was saved that day, but next week or next year, I might not be, if I do not "pass the test."

The same can be said for many other people in Scripture, including Cornelius and everyone that was with him when they were saved, Paul, etc.

Similarly, a believer can know once-and-for-all that he is truly saved and nothing that will happen in his life after that point will ever or could ever change that reality. Salvation is the work of God; when He births a person anew into His family, that person is and will be forever in His family.

A believer does not have to repeatedly test himself to see if he is saved. To hold that view is to say that no one can ever actually know for sure that he is saved.

We are to examine ourselves for the state of our relationship with our Father, deal with our sins that break our fellowship with Him, and make things right, but we do not have to keep on proving whether we are actually a child of God or not.

 

[atpollard]

Complete rubbish. We are trying to follow Christ, thus growing more like Christ in our walk, and in order to do that we must evaluate our walk, confess our shortcomings, and strive to do better.

You would make any Pharisee proud.

 

[atpollard]

Complete rubbish.

I disagree.
Philippians 2:13 is NOT “complete rubbish”!

[NASB] “for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.”

 

[Van]

You would make any Pharisee proud.

This is all they have, evade biblical discussion by fabricating non-stop false charges. We are trying to follow Christ, thus growing more like Christ in our walk, and in order to do that we must evaluate our walk, confess our shortcomings, and strive to do better.

 

[Van]

I disagree.
Philippians 2:13 is NOT “complete rubbish”!

[NASB] “for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.”

If you believe this verse is germane to the issue, I have a bridge in Brooklyn.

We are to listen to our indwelt Spirit as we evaluate our walk.

John 14:26
“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

John 16:8
“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

 

[atpollard]

If you believe this verse is germane to the issue, I have a bridge in Brooklyn.

I believe you. Of all the posters, you seem most likely to buy a bridge in Brooklyn.

(PS. Philippians 2:13 is germane to sanctification.)

 

[Van]

I believe you. Of all the posters, you seem most likely to buy a bridge in Brooklyn. (PS. Philippians 2:13 is germane to sanctification.)

To progressive sanctification, not to positional sanctification through or by reason of God crediting our faith as righteousness.

 

[atpollard]

This is all they have, evade biblical discussion by fabricating non-stop false charges.

You telling everyone what to thing, and disparaging anyone that disagrees is not “biblical discussion”. You skip over exegesis of verses and discussions of context and jump straight to scripture pong with proof texts or just restating your opinion.

We are trying to follow Christ, thus growing more like Christ in our walk, and in order to do that we must evaluate our walk, confess our shortcomings, and strive to do better.

Good luck with your program of self sanctification through hard work. I will stick with trusting in Jesus, since I couldn’t save myself and I can’t make myself perfect, either. (like Philippians 2:13 says.)

 

[atpollard]

To progressive sanctification, not to positional sanctification through or by reason of God crediting our faith as righteousness.

YOU were talking about “progressive sanctification” in the post that I responded to!

Read it for yourself:

Complete rubbish. We are trying to follow Christ, thus growing more like Christ in our walk, and in order to do that we must evaluate our walk, confess our shortcomings, and strive to do better. And of course, we are to listen to our indwelt Spirit as we evaluate our walk

Can you explain how “trying to follow Christ” and “growing more like Christ” and “evaluating our walk” and “strive to do better” can be applied to POSITIONAL sanctification rather than PROGRESSIVE sanctification? It was your great self-effort at increasing your sanctification with your feedback cycle of examination, try harder, do better, re-examine self ... that prompted my comparison with the Pharisee treadmill of self-righteous duties.