Who Draws Men Unto the Son?

[Hark]

who draws men unto the Son? The Holy Spirit of the Father?

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. ` KJV

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. KJV

Often times than not, you may hear someone say that the Holy Spirit draws men unto the Son. Not so. Scripture specifically gives that credit to God the Father. So let us not defer that credit to the Holy Spirit when it is the Father that draws all men unto the Son to reveal His Son to them so they can believe & be saved by the Son.

That is right. Our believing in Jesus Christ is a work of God the Father Himself.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. KJV

God the Father knows who is seeking Him from those that are not, but preferring their evil deeds. So our believing in Jesus Christ & that God raised him from the dead is a work of God the Father.

John 6:.38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. KJV

Let us give credit to Whom credit is due as it is the Father that draws men unto the Son.

 

[Yeshua1]

who draws men unto the Son? The Holy Spirit of the Father?

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. ` KJV

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. KJV

Often times than not, you may hear someone say that the Holy Spirit draws men unto the Son. Not so. Scripture specifically gives that credit to God the Father. So let us not defer that credit to the Holy Spirit when it is the Father that draws all men unto the Son to reveal His Son to them so they can believe & be saved by the Son.

That is right. Our believing in Jesus Christ is a work of God the Father Himself.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. KJV

God the Father knows who is seeking Him from those that are not, but preferring their evil deeds. So our believing in Jesus Christ & that God raised him from the dead is a work of God the Father.

John 6:.38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. KJV

Let us give credit to Whom credit is due as it is the Father that draws men unto the Son.

Yes, but the Holy Spirit brings to therm conviction and faith!

 

[Hark]

Yes, but the Holy Spirit brings to therm conviction and faith!

Actually the Spirit convicts of sin of those who do not believe in Him.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. KJV

So I reckon you need to come up scripture to support what you are saying because I have not come across it yet. As it is, scripture plainly credits the Father as drawing men unto the Son & Jesus singled the Father out in this way.


John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. ` KJV

 

[Aaron]

If a read a bit farther, Christ said He draws all men to Himself. John 12:32

 

[Marooncat79]

Just because the HS convicts of sin, righteousness and judgement does not mean that He draws them unto salvation

 

[Hark]

If a read a bit farther, Christ said He draws all men to Himself. John 12:32

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. KJV

Thank you for sharing scripture.

It does seem to be in contrary to the exception that Jesus saying about the Father doing this drawing.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. KJV

So John 12:32 needs to be read for discernment because scripture does not go against scripture.

.John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. KJV

It is the lifting up of the Son from the earth that draws all men unto Jesus; hence His resurrection. So Who did the lifting to draw all men unto the Son?

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. ~ KJV

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. ~ KJV

Acts 13:33God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. ~ KJV

This is what I believe Jesus was referring to in John 12:32 about in regards to Him being lifted as in resurrected by God the Father to draw all men unto the Son. The Holy Spirit in compliance to the Father's will is done for why the Father is given the sole credit as being the One that draws men unto the Son as this was done according to His will.

 

[Hark]

Just because the HS convicts of sin, righteousness and judgement does not mean that He draws them unto salvation

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

I agree since the convicting is being done on the unbelievers. This is not addressing conviction of believers to believe in Him, but rather the opposite. It is unbelief is the sin the Holy Spirit will convict of & I dare say is what Jesus really meant about the unforgivable sin, because He is not convicting anyone else by any other sin than that of unbelief.

This is not addressing former believers that went astray for He still abides.

2 Timothy 2:.10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. ~ KJV

An example of former believers is given below for why we are to still call them to seek answers from the Lord Jesus Christ to expose the lies & see the truth in His words for them to repent from unbelief to avoid being left behind to be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House, but still in His House..

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. ~ KJV

 

[Aaron]

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. KJV

It is the lifting up of the Son from the earth that draws all men unto Jesus; hence His resurrection.

He was lifted up on the Cross. John 12:33 .

 

[Hark]

He was lifted up on the Cross. John 12:33 .

I clicked on that scriptural reference & His words did not say He was lifted from the cross.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die. KJV

Together verse 33 is referring to His death by which in verse 32 is the reason why He was lifted from the earth.

 

[Dave G]

It is the lifting up of the Son from the earth that draws all men unto Jesus; hence His resurrection.

I'll go with Aaron on this one, although that is an interesting view I have never considered...
but based on the context of John 12, I would say it was the cross.

"This He said, signifying what death He should die.".

 

[Aaron]

I clicked on that scriptural reference & His words did not say He was lifted from the cross.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die. KJV

Together verse 33 is referring to His death by which in verse 32 is the reason why He was lifted from the earth.

He was lifted up from the earth on the Cross.

 

[Hark]

I'll go with Aaron on this one, although that is an interesting view I have never considered...
but based on the context of John 12, I would say it was the cross.

"This He said, signifying what death He should die.".

He was lifted up from the earth on the Cross.

Maybe another verse to confirm this application is in order?

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. KJV

To Dave G >>>Aaron is implying the Son draws all men unto Himself by Him being lifted up on the cross. See in quote below.

If a read a bit farther, Christ said He draws all men to Himself. John 12:32

Granted, John 3:14-15 cites the Son of Man being lifted up ; not that He is lifting Himself up, so the drawing of all men unto the Son to believe on Him is still on the Father.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

But I can see Aaron's & Dave G's point about John 12:32-33 about being lifted up from the earth as referring to the cross, but that does not prove Aaron's point as if the Son draws all men unto Himself when Jesus said plainly that they cannot be drawn to Him in spite of the cross unless the Father draws them.

As it is, not everyone that looked upon the Son on the cross were drawn to Him to believe in Him to be saved.

So I am willing to apply John 3:14-15 to John 12:32-33 as referring to being lifted up from the earth signifying what manner of death He will die which is the cross.

Thanks for the correction on John 12:32-33 but that does not prove Aaron's point that the Son draws men unto Himself when Jesus gave the exception as only the Father does that in John 6:44.

 

[Aaron]

To Dave G >>>Aaron is implying the Son draws all men unto Himself by Him being lifted up on the cross. See in quote below.

No...

Aaron simply said that Jesus said He would draw all men to Himself. Aaron did NOT say Jesus would draw all men BY being lifted up.

YOU said the lifting up was the Ascention.

Aaron was just correcting your error.

 

[Dave G]

To Dave G >>>Aaron is implying the Son draws all men unto Himself by Him being lifted up on the cross.

You might ask Aaron on that.
As far as I know, he does not and is not implying that.

From my observations, he believes much as I do...
That no man can come to Christ except the Father draw them.
Those that are drawn, will be raised up.

"Calvinists" call it "Irresistible Grace" and "effectual calling".

 

[Dave G]

Maybe another verse to confirm this application is in order?

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. KJV

That is a good one, and thanks for the cross reference.

 

[Dave G]

Thanks for the correction on John 12:32-33 but that does not prove Aaron's point that the Son draws men unto Himself when Jesus gave the exception as only the Father does that in John 6:44.

I see a bit more, in that in John 12:32 He is not drawing all ( each and every ) men to Himself;
The text, at least in the AV and in the Greek, does not say "all men", it says "all".

As I understand the "all" to be in John 12:32, it is all of His sheep gathered from every tongue, tribe and nation ( Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9 ).

I also see that if it were the same type of "drawing" in both John 6:44 and John 12:32, then the Lord has lied in John 6:44 when He states that in order for a person to come to Him, the Father must do the drawing that results in that person then being raised up at the last day.

The Father and the Son work in concert with the Spirit.
In other words, the Father chose a people ( Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:4-5 ), gave them to His Son ( John 6:39, John 6:65, John 17:2 ), and it them who are drawn by the working of the Spirit.

The Son's being lifted up on the cross for them, "draws" them to Him.


But to answer the OP, I see that the Father is the one who uses His Spirit to draw them.
Make sense?

 

[Hark]

No...

Aaron simply said that Jesus said He would draw all men to Himself. Aaron did NOT say Jesus would draw all men BY being lifted up.

Thank you for the correction but...

If a read a bit farther, Christ said He draws all men to Himself. John 12:32

That is not what John 12:32 says either. If you leave out "if I be lifted up", then yeah but His " I " is in relation to Him being lifted up.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

YOU said the lifting up was the Ascention.

Aaron was just correcting your error.

Actually, it was in reference to His resurrection, not His ascension.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. KJV

Thank you for sharing scripture.

It does seem to be in contrary to the exception that Jesus saying about the Father doing this drawing.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. KJV

So John 12:32 needs to be read for discernment because scripture does not go against scripture.

.John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. KJV

It is the lifting up of the Son from the earth that draws all men unto Jesus; hence His resurrection.

It is still a correction nevertheless, but not hw you applied it because it goes against His words in John 6:44 If we read earlier, we find it is the Father that gives sinners to Jesus to be saved.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. ~ KJV

So His being raised up on the cross to die for us so the Father can draw all men unto the Son is how the Son drew all men unto the Himself by being lifted up on the cross. The Father cannt draw all men unless Jesus had been crucified in giving His life for a ransom for many.

As it is, belief in God was essential for looking at the serpent Moses had raised up in the wilderness for Jews to be saved from a poisonous snake bite. Not everyone seeing Jesus crucified were saved at that time of His crucifixion. The promise from the Father for the permanent indwelling of the Holy Ghost at our salvation by believing in Him was to occur after His ascension.
John 14:25-26

Since it is the Father that hides the truth from the prudent & the wise & reveal them unto babes, per Matthew 11:25-27, then Jesus meant what He said that it is the Father that draws men unto the Son to give to the Son to believe in Him to be saved.

Anyway, I thank you for the correction about it being lifted up on the cross, but you are still misapplying His words, because of " if I be lifted up" in relation to that " I " for how men will be drawn unto Him; He is not signifying the Who that is doing the drawing unto the Son for being lifted up on the cross but other scripture plainly states the Son does not do the choosing as to who to save; it is the father that gives them to the Son to be saved as it is the Father that reveals the Son to the sinners so they can believe in Him to be saved.

That is where I am at in the knowledge of Him after yours & Dave G's correction about John 12:32-33

 

[Hark]

You might ask Aaron on that.
As far as I know, he does not and is not implying that.

From my observations, he believes much as I do...
That no man can come to Christ except the Father draw them.
Those that are drawn, will be raised up.

"Calvinists" call it "Irresistible Grace" and "effectual calling".

He does need to clarify. Reads to me differently on what he meant.

I am not sure what Calvin meant either but we are not supposed to be identified with men like that but by our faith in Jesus Christ.

Calvin supported the execution of a heretic & yet John 16:1-3 seems to testify against him for doing that. That does not mean everything he taught was wrong, but it does prove why we are to prove all things by Jesus Christ. That includes myself too.

 

[Dave G]

I am not sure what Calvin meant either but we are not supposed to be identified with men like that but by our faith in Jesus Christ.

Amen.

Calvin supported the execution of a heretic & yet John 16:1-3 seems to testify against him for doing that.

Again I agree.
I also see other passages testifying against the death of Michael Servetus.

God's people do not persecute others, nor are they to be involved with anything that might be evil or construed as evil.

That does not mean everything he taught was wrong, but it does prove why we are to prove all things by Jesus Christ.

 

[Van]

John 6:29, (NET)Jesus replied, "This is the deed God requires - to believe in the one whom he sent."

Thus the ambiguous "work of God" can be interpreted two ways, the work God does, and the work God requires that people do.
False teachers deny all the verses that say "his faith" and "your faith" and the like, so they can make a bogus claim. Everyone who believes refers to our belief, and does not mean everyone who God instills His faith into. Verse after verse must be rewritten to create bogus support for bogus doctrine.