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Featured Who Draws Men Unto the Son?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Hark, Feb 4, 2021.

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  1. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Huh ? You lost me friend.
     
    #61 Brightfame52, Feb 7, 2021
  2. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Your quote below.

    The redeemed already have the Holy Spirit in them so there is no need to send the Holy Spirit again just to effect the drawing from inside the believer... if I am understanding your post correctly.

    How do we prove or reprove the notion that "all Three Persons of the Godhead are involved in drawing".? I can find no scripture testifying to that effect but there are scripture singling out the Father plainly as the One doing the drawing as that drawing is done according to His will.

    John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. KJV

    Who gives to the Son to save sinners? Whose will is it for the Son to save sinners given to Him?

    John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. ~ KJV

    So how does the Father give to the Son to save them? Scripture says the Father hides the truth from the wise & prudent & reveals the Son even to babes.

    Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. ~ KJV

    There is a role that signify belonging to the Holy Ghost as He is called the Comforter. John 14:26

    Just as Jesus Christ is the only One that dies on the cross for our sins; not the Holy Ghost nor the Father.

    So there is a role that the Father performs & scripture gives the Father that sole credit of doing the drawing. When scripture plainly has Jesus testifying that no man can come to Him except the Father draws him, then I believe He meant what He has said as no one else is doing the drawing, but the Father.
     
    #62 Hark, Feb 7, 2021
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  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    hark

    Thats false. Initially the redeemed do not have the Holy Spirit in them, but because they are the redeemed, God sends the Spirit in their heart to testify of their sonship Gal 4:4-6

    But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

    5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

    6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

    Gal 3:13-14

    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
     
    #63 Brightfame52, Feb 8, 2021
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  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Editing posts to focus on the relevant statements is not offensive. Your post addresses my behavior rather than the topic, which is against forum rules and is offensive. It changes the subject from discussion of biblical doctrine to individuals, a ploy of false teachers.
     
    #64 Van, Feb 8, 2021
  5. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Our Redeemer is our Saviour as the redeemed are the saved.

    They are not redeemed unless the Spirit of Christ is in them as promised. Since Christ has redeemed us.. hence has saved us, the Spirit of Christ is in us at the point of salvation & forever thus hence our redemption as the redeemed while awaiting our future eternal inheritance..
     
    #65 Hark, Feb 8, 2021
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why then to you post? I present scripture, such as John 6:29 with clarity.
     
    #66 Van, Feb 8, 2021
  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. Redemption is through the blood of Christ, not any work of the Spirit in us or for us. Now the Spirit will be given to the redeemed in order to lead them to Christ in Faith.
     
    #67 Brightfame52, Feb 8, 2021
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  8. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Just explaining why any attempt you wish to serve Him by in ministering to others is not going to work. You can see how quote window is small & does not show the whole post so snipping is needless & a waste of time on your part other than to offend.

    Your snipping changes what kind of discussion we are having as in we are not having a discussion of iron sharpening iron when it is in disrespect. As you judge .. remember how that standard of judgment can come back on you from Him above. Fear Him.
     
    #68 Hark, Feb 8, 2021
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  9. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Believing in Him is how one receives the remission of sins & how we receive the promise of the Holy Ghost at our salvation. And not before since the Father is the One Jesus testified as drawing men unto the Son per John 6:44

    John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. KJV

    The question to you now is.. did Jesus really meant what He has said or not? Ask Him.
     
    #69 Hark, Feb 8, 2021
  10. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    I dont follow you . Redemption brings forgiveness of sins, through the Blood Eph 1:7

    7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    Has absolutely nothing to do with the Spirit

    You sound like you are confused about these matters.
     
    #70 Brightfame52, Feb 8, 2021
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  11. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    It is by the redemption through His blood by believing in Him is why the Holy Spirit comes & the believer is born again in that moment thus becoming the redeemed hence the saved.

    Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. KJV

    Before they even came forward or confess Him or got water baptized, they believed the word they had heard by believing in Him is how they had received the remission of sins & the promise of the Holy Ghost at their salvation automatically.
     
    #71 Hark, Feb 8, 2021
  12. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Redemption isnt by a person believing, its by a person Jesus Christ shedding His Blood.
     
    #72 Brightfame52, Feb 8, 2021
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  13. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    How does one receive redemption aka the remission of sins from Jesus Christ? By believing in Him. I understand the redemption is by His blood, but the "redeemed" had received that redemption when non-believers have not received that redemption from Jesus through His blood.
     
    #73 Hark, Feb 8, 2021
  14. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Your scriptural reference of John 6:29 does not state Who plainly does the drawing. John 6:44 does. That is the topic.
     
    #74 Hark, Feb 8, 2021
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    On and on folks, one you, you, you post after another, which constitutes "running" from the truth of biblical doctrine.
     
    #75 Van, Feb 8, 2021
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No, yet another false claim. The fact that God the Father does the drawing is not at issue, rather that subject is an effort to change the subject.
     
    #76 Van, Feb 8, 2021
  17. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Readers.. you can ask the Lord Jesu Christ just Who it is that scripture plainly has Jesus giving the credit of drawing men unto the Son as plainly written.

    John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. KJV
     
    #77 Hark, Feb 8, 2021
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  18. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone Christ died for has been redeemed. Redemption isn't by believing but soely by Christ dying. Then the redeemed shall be drawn to Christ.
     
    #78 Brightfame52, Feb 9, 2021
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  19. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Hark,
    I don't see Scripture anywhere teaching that redemption through His blood is because our belief...
    Neither do I see that the reason the Holy Spirit comes in and the believer is born again is because of their belief.

    God's word tells us in John 1:13 that we were not born again because of blood, because of our will, or because of the will of others;
    It was by God's will alone.

    For similar support, please see James 1:18.
     
    #79 Dave G, Feb 9, 2021
  20. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    By it being given to them.
    Scripture says in Romans 5:

    " But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
     9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life    .
    11 And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement." ( Romans 5:8-10 ).
     
    #80 Dave G, Feb 9, 2021
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