Does Your Bible Version Prove Tongues Are Not For Private Use?

[Hark]

Here is what the King James Version says.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

John 16:13 testify that the Holy Spirit cannot speak His own words; He can only speak what He hears.

Romans 8:26 confirms this truth in John 16:13 in that not even His groanings can be uttered.

Romans 8:27 is testifying of Another ( he ) that searches our hearts & knows the mind of the Spirit; hence He is the One that gives the silent intercessions of the Spirit's to the Father. This is also in according to the will of God because there is only One Mediator between God & men, the man Christ Jesus per 1 Timothy 2:5.

It is by the Son at that throne of grace, the Word of God that we have access to the Father by as the Son gives the silent intercessions of the Spirit's & our intercessions, as well as the Son's own intercessions to the Father. When the Father says yes to any of those intercessions that can only be presented by the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son answers the prayers for the sole will of God the father for that is how the Father is glorified in the Son for His Son answering prayers. Click on John 14:13-14 to see verse.

So as far as the KJV goes, the truth of John 16:13 is kept in Romans 8:26 whereby the Holy Spirit cannot speak His own words, let alone groan when uttering His intercessions, because His intercessions are silent.

Does your Bible version keep the truth of John 16:13 as found in all Bible versions in Romans 8:26-27 or not?

 

[John of Japan]

Here is what the King James Version says.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

John 16:13 testify that the Holy Spirit cannot speak His own words; He can only speak what He hears.

Um, He is God. Are you saying that God is limited in what he can say? The Bible certainly does not say that. It sounds like you are depicting the Holy Spirit as unable to communicate. He inspired the Bible. He verbally led people oin the book of Acts.

Romans 8:26 confirms this truth in John 16:13 in that not even His groanings can be uttered.

That's not what the Bible says: "even...." You are adding a word.

Romans 8:27 is testifying of Another ( he ) that searches our hearts & knows the mind of the Spirit; hence He is the One that gives the silent intercessions of the Spirit's to the Father. This is also in according to the will of God because there is only One Mediator between God & men, the man Christ Jesus per 1 Timothy 2:5.

Again, you are adding a word. The Bible does not say "silent."

It is by the Son at that throne of grace, the Word of God that we have access to the Father by as the Son gives the silent intercessions of the Spirit's & our intercessions, as well as the Son's own intercessions to the Father. When the Father says yes to any of those intercessions that can only be presented by the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son answers the prayers for the sole will of God the father for that is how the Father is glorified in the Son for His Son answering prayers. Click on John 14:13-14 to see verse.

So as far as the KJV goes, the truth of John 16:13 is kept in Romans 8:26 whereby the Holy Spirit cannot speak His own words, let alone groan when uttering His intercessions, because His intercessions are silent.

Does your Bible version keep the truth of John 16:13 as found in all Bible versions in Romans 8:26-27 or not?

My KJV Bible has both of those verses in their entirety. But neither of them is about "tongues," which topic only occurs in Acts ch. 2, 10 (one verse) and 19 (one verse), and 1 Cor. 12-14. And the church at Corinth was the most immature in the NT. They needed special guidance.

Furthermore, the word "tongue" in 1611 meant "language," not the jibberjabber that modern Charismatic "tongues" is. The word "unknown" was added by the KJV translators to the word "tongue" only in 1 Cor. 14, and it was in italics, meaning it was not in the original. The KJV translators DID NOT believe in modern Charismatic tongues.

 

[Hark]

Um, He is God. Are you saying that God is limited in what he can say?

Jesus did. The Holy Spirt speaks what He hears. If He can also speak His own words apart from what He hears, what is the point of the verse then in John 16:13 & why His limited role in speaking as the Spirit of Christ & how the Holy Spirit glorifies the Son in John 16:14-15 shows why no credit & glory goes to the Holy Spirit since the Spirit is giving that glory to the Son?

The Bible certainly does not say that. It sounds like you are depicting the Holy Spirit as unable to communicate.

It's like this when Jesus was on earth during His ministry when He commissioned the 12 where one was Judas Iscariot, to go out & preach in the power of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. KJV

So are His disciples really speaking? Yes & no. They are speaking but the Spirit is leading them to speak. Does that mean they were not speaking their own words as if they were not speaking at all? No, but led by the Spirit to speak but....

Is the Spirit really speaking His own words or is He speaking words from Another? "Spirit of your Father" informs from Who the words are coming from.

Now that Jesus Christ has risen & ascended to the right hand of the Father, the Holy Spirit we have been baptized with at our salvation is the Spirit of Christ as every word of the Father's is now the Son's per John 16:14-15 whereby Jesus serves as our Good Shepherd in guiding us through the Holy Spirit in us. God speaks to us through the Holy Spirit in us thru His words, the words of Christ ( John 14:25-26 ) & our response is back to the Bridegroom, the Lord Jesus Christ; John 14:6 & John 10:1.

He inspired the Bible. He verbally led people oin the book of Acts.

No argument there, but where does the words of the Spirit had come from? With the Lord's help thru the Holy Spirit in us, we have to apply the truths in scripture to understand how the Holy Spirit speaks & inspire in truth. 1 Timothy 4:1 by itself can be misapplied as if the Spirit speaks Himself by His own words, but with the truth of John 16:13-15 & Matthew 10:19-20, I understand "how" the Holy Spirit speaks just as I understand by the grace of God how His disciples spoke in led by the Spirit of our Father when Jesus was on earth to after His ascension, at Pentecost, they spoke by the Spirit of Christ.

That's not what the Bible says: "even...." You are adding a word.

I am conveying what I believe is the truth in His words as plainly written for which you seem to think He did not really say that. In exposing the errors of modern Bibles, they ignore the wordings of "with groanings which cannot be uttered" in the KJV which means no sound at all as they gloss over it in favor of modern Bibles with "wordless groans" as if He can utter His own groanings. He cannot according to the KJV. So "even" is added to emphasize the truth in His words of Romans 8:26 in the KJV in opposing how modern Bibles translate that verse to mean like "wordless groans" from the NIV as if the Holy Spirit can utter His groanings. but yet the NIV of John 16:13 understands the truth of how limited the Holy Spirit can speak.

John 16:.13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

Now compare that with Romans 8:26-27 in that same bible.

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. NIV

Not only does the NIV Romans 8:26 opposes the truth in His words in John 16:13, but Romans 8:27 commits a grammatical error because how can "he" is separate from us in searching our hearts & separate from the Spirit to know the mind of, be "the Spirit" in the conclusion of that verse?

The "he" that searches our hearts is Jesus, the Word of God at that throne of grace per Hebrews 4:12-16 & this is the "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit. Verse 27 concludes with "in according to the will of God" because Jesus is the only Mediator between God & men, the man Christ Jesus, not the Spirit of Christ nor the Father. It is Jesus at that throne of grace in Heaven by Whom we have access to the Father by in prayer as Jesus gives our petitions, the Spirit's silent petitions, & the Son's own petitions to the Father & whichever petitions the Father agrees to, the Son answers the prayer so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers per John 14:13-14.

Again, you are adding a word. The Bible does not say "silent."

As opposing what modern bibles say, that word is added to emphasize the truth in His words as it is written but seemingly overlooked as if God did not really say that "with groanings which cannot be uttered".

My KJV Bible has both of those verses in their entirety. But neither of them is about "tongues," which topic only occurs in Acts ch. 2, 10 (one verse) and 19 (one verse), and 1 Cor. 12-14. And the church at Corinth was the most immature in the NT. They needed special guidance.

But modern Bibles gives a different message for why the truth needs to be emphasized by the truth in His words with more words. The meaning is there, but for some reason, is not understood as it is actually written.

Furthermore, the word "tongue" in 1611 meant "language," not the jibberjabber that modern Charismatic "tongues" is. The word "unknown" was added by the KJV translators to the word "tongue" only in 1 Cor. 14, and it was in italics, meaning it was not in the original. The KJV translators DID NOT believe in modern Charismatic tongues.

I agree that tongues is meant language of men as 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 testify. Unknown was added in the KJV for the reason that clarity is needed that the tongue speaker as led by the Spirit is speaking a language unknown to himself for a foreigner to hear as God is speaking unto them through the Holy Spirt in the tongue speaker.

 

[Logos1560]

Unknown was added in the KJV for the reason that clarity is needed that the tongue speaker as led by the Spirit is speaking a language unknown to himself for a foreigner to hear as God is speaking unto them through the Holy Spirt in the tongue speaker.

The added "unknown" in the KJV has not been demonstrated to add clarity.

The added "unknown" is what is behind some of the tongues movement as it was understood by some to mean a language not known by men [a claimed heavenly language]. Those who advocate speaking in tongues have used the added "unknown" in the KJV to support their incorrect teaching.

The 1560 Geneva Bible has "if I pray in a strange tongue" at 1 Corinthians 14:14, using "strange" with the meaning "foreign" as it is also used in the KJV in "strange" women or wives used to mean foreign wives.

The KJV translators may have added "unknown" to mean "foreign" but that may not be a usual or understood meaning for "unknown" to some readers.

 

[Hark]

The added "unknown" in the KJV has not been demonstrated to add clarity.

The added "unknown" is what is behind some of the tongues movement as it was understood by some to mean a language not known by men [a claimed heavenly language]. Those who advocate speaking in tongues have used the added "unknown" in the KJV to support their incorrect teaching.

The 1560 Geneva Bible has "if I pray in a strange tongue" at 1 Corinthians 14:14, using "strange" with the meaning "foreign" as it is also used in the KJV in "strange" women or wives used to mean foreign wives.

The KJV translators may have added "unknown" to mean "foreign" but that may not be a usual or understood meaning for "unknown" to some readers.

Considering that the tongue speaker is led by the Holy Spirit to speak a language unknown to himself, is hardly confusing the issue.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. KJV

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. KJV

Both verses above testify to me that the tongue speaker does not know the language & yet again in verse 14 to his spirit it is a mystery to himself not knowing what is being spoken which is why tongue speakers are to pray that the Holy Spirit will interpret thru another or else it is unfruitful to the tongue speaker.

In comparison to the NIV

1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. NIV

There are no mysteries to the Spirit. It is only a mystery to the tongue speaker's spirit until it is interpreted for why prophesy is the gift to seek after over tongues or any other gifts per 1 Corinthians 14:1 & 1 Corinthians 14:12 as repeated again.

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. NIV

Verse 13 sets the precedent to understand that why tongue speakers are to pray while the Spirit is manifesting tongues in them to speak unto others that the Lord Jesus Christ will have the Holy Spirit translate the foreign language from another believer so he can understand what is being manifested by tongues thru himself. Verse 14 confirms & in keeping with the message in that it is the tongue speaker that is praying silently; not the Holy Spirit as it is the Holy Spirit speaking thru him what He hears from Jesus to others in their native tongue, but until it is translated, he will not be edified until then.

That is why prophesy is better than tongues, because tongues is not a stand alone gift for it is unknown to the tongue speaker.

I agree that the word unknown was added, but the truth of His words is not altered by that added word. It just confirms what was plainly stated without it.

You may disagree, but unless you cite your version for which you have it as strange instead of unknown, I am not seeing the difference in how strange is an added word too. However, strange can be applied to gibberish nonsense whereas people know someone is speaking in another language of men thus unknown to themselves. So it is for the tongue speaker.

Thanks for sharing. It is on God to cause the increase. If it is for you & me, than it has to be for others too to see the truth as to which Bible versions loved Him to keep His words..

 

[John of Japan]

Jesus did. The Holy Spirt speaks what He hears. If He can also speak His own words apart from what He hears, what is the point of the verse then in John 16:13 & why His limited role in speaking as the Spirit of Christ & how the Holy Spirit glorifies the Son in John 16:14-15 shows why no credit & glory goes to the Holy Spirit since the Spirit is giving that glory to the Son?



It's like this when Jesus was on earth during His ministry when He commissioned the 12 where one was Judas Iscariot, to go out & preach in the power of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. KJV

So are His disciples really speaking? Yes & no. They are speaking but the Spirit is leading them to speak. Does that mean they were not speaking their own words as if they were not speaking at all? No, but led by the Spirit to speak but....

Is the Spirit really speaking His own words or is He speaking words from Another? "Spirit of your Father" informs from Who the words are coming from.

Now that Jesus Christ has risen & ascended to the right hand of the Father, the Holy Spirit we have been baptized with at our salvation is the Spirit of Christ as every word of the Father's is now the Son's per John 16:14-15 whereby Jesus serves as our Good Shepherd in guiding us through the Holy Spirit in us. God speaks to us through the Holy Spirit in us thru His words, the words of Christ ( John 14:25-26 ) & our response is back to the Bridegroom, the Lord Jesus Christ; John 14:6 & John 10:1.



No argument there, but where does the words of the Spirit had come from? With the Lord's help thru the Holy Spirit in us, we have to apply the truths in scripture to understand how the Holy Spirit speaks & inspire in truth. 1 Timothy 4:1 by itself can be misapplied as if the Spirit speaks Himself by His own words, but with the truth of John 16:13-15 & Matthew 10:19-20, I understand "how" the Holy Spirit speaks just as I understand by the grace of God how His disciples spoke in led by the Spirit of our Father when Jesus was on earth to after His ascension, at Pentecost, they spoke by the Spirit of Christ.



I am conveying what I believe is the truth in His words as plainly written for which you seem to think He did not really say that. In exposing the errors of modern Bibles, they ignore the wordings of "with groanings which cannot be uttered" in the KJV which means no sound at all as they gloss over it in favor of modern Bibles with "wordless groans" as if He can utter His own groanings. He cannot according to the KJV. So "even" is added to emphasize the truth in His words of Romans 8:26 in the KJV in opposing how modern Bibles translate that verse to mean like "wordless groans" from the NIV as if the Holy Spirit can utter His groanings. but yet the NIV of John 16:13 understands the truth of how limited the Holy Spirit can speak.

John 16:.13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

Now compare that with Romans 8:26-27 in that same bible.

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. NIV

Not only does the NIV Romans 8:26 opposes the truth in His words in John 16:13, but Romans 8:27 commits a grammatical error because how can "he" is separate from us in searching our hearts & separate from the Spirit to know the mind of, be "the Spirit" in the conclusion of that verse?

The "he" that searches our hearts is Jesus, the Word of God at that throne of grace per Hebrews 4:12-16 & this is the "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit. Verse 27 concludes with "in according to the will of God" because Jesus is the only Mediator between God & men, the man Christ Jesus, not the Spirit of Christ nor the Father. It is Jesus at that throne of grace in Heaven by Whom we have access to the Father by in prayer as Jesus gives our petitions, the Spirit's silent petitions, & the Son's own petitions to the Father & whichever petitions the Father agrees to, the Son answers the prayer so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers per John 14:13-14.



As opposing what modern bibles say, that word is added to emphasize the truth in His words as it is written but seemingly overlooked as if God did not really say that "with groanings which cannot be uttered".



But modern Bibles gives a different message for why the truth needs to be emphasized by the truth in His words with more words. The meaning is there, but for some reason, is not understood as it is actually written.



I agree that tongues is meant language of men as 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 testify. Unknown was added in the KJV for the reason that clarity is needed that the tongue speaker as led by the Spirit is speaking a language unknown to himself for a foreigner to hear as God is speaking unto them through the Holy Spirt in the tongue speaker.

Forgive me, but I have not yet figured some things out about your posts. Are you against the Charismatic view of tongues or for it? I am not clear about what you are trying to prove with your OP.

To me, the passages you mentioned in the OP are not even talking about tongues, pro or con.

 

[Hark]

Forgive me, but I have not yet figured some things out about your posts. Are you against the Charismatic view of tongues or for it? I am not clear about what you are trying to prove with your OP.

To me, the passages you mentioned in the OP are not even talking about tongues, pro or con.

I am addressing the false notion that tongues are for private use. The scripture in the KJV proves that tongues are not for private use.

John 16:13 is testifying to how the Holy Spirit will not speak from Himself, but speak what He hears; thus He cannot utter His own intercessions, thus making His intercessions silent even though He has them. Romans 8:26 confirms the word that not even His groanings can be uttered in Romans 8:26 as opposing other modern Bibles that testify wrongly that the Holy Spirit does utter something; hence wordless groans when He makes intercessions for us.

It is important to hold to the KJV of keeping the truth in His words because many tongue speakers seem to use this reference in modern bibles as how the Holy Spirit makes His intercessions by uttering them; hence opposing the truth of John 16:13 in whatever modern Bible they are using.

Romans 8:26-27 is for all believers in that the Father knows what we are going to pray before we ask Him. The Holy Spirit does not need to utter anything for believers to know He makes intercessions for them silently for Jesus being the only Mediator between God & men is why Jesus has to know the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's silent intercessions to the Father for Him.

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. KJV

How can the Father know before we ask Him? By Jesus searching our hearts.

Hebrews 4:12 2 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. KJV

As it is, John 16:13 is testifying to how the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself & how He will speak which is by what He hears. He cannot speak as the Spirit of the Spirit, but per the New Covenant, as the Spirit of Christ as the words are Christ's.

Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV has the testimony that His groanings cannot be uttered thus confirming & aligning with the truth of His words in John 16:13 that the Spirit cannot speak for Himself, but speaks what He hears.

Only wisdom from the Lord can enable you to see the truths in His words as kept & aligned in the KJV as opposing how modern Bibles are not keeping the truths in His words for us to discern good & evil by in regards to tongues for private use..

 

[John of Japan]

I am addressing the false notion that tongues are for private use. The scripture in the KJV proves that tongues are not for private use.

Then, what are tongues for?

 

[Hark]

Then, what are tongues for?

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

The manifestations of the Spirit are to profit the body of Christ. It is the same Spirit.. there is no other way the Spirit operates as this is the same Spirit.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

This division of the gifts are divided among the assembly by that same Spirit. Paul goes on to address the manifestations of that same Spirit in the body of Christ at the assembly.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

This explains the manifestations of the Spirit in relation to the assembly of the body of Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

This testify that there is not another drink of the One Spirit for believers to get these gifts of the Spirit; not tongues; not prophesy, nor any other gift. There is no receiving the Holy Spirit again or another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues as happening separate from salvation. Indeed, it should be no wonder why interpretations do not come for that tongue by that second drink apart from salvation for why they assume it is for private use. See the warning in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. KJV

Now back to 1 Corinthians 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.

The following verses explains why tongues cannot be for private use as modern tongue speakers today that err, list all the benefits of tongues for private use as if they do not need the body of Christ for that gift. They can do everything by that tongue which is gibberish nonsense & yet they cannot tell what that tongue is doing in light of that list of benefits unless someone else interpret thus it is confusion to them which God is not the author of.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. KJV

So the gift of tongues is not a stand alone gift for why another has to interpret that tongue as led by the Spirit to do to profit the body of Christ withal.

 

[rlvaughn]

Then, what are tongues for?

Answering for myself, not the OP:
1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not...

 

[John of Japan]

Answering for myself, not the OP:
1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not...

And for communicating the Gospel for the salvation of lost sinners in Acts 2.

I still am kind of lost about the OP, though. I see no reason in participating any more in this thread. it's just not making sense to me. Is he for or against private tongues? Is he defending or attacking them?

A BB poster ought to be able to clearly and succinctly state his or her position.

 

[rlvaughn]

And for communicating the Gospel for the salvation of lost sinners in Acts 2.

I will only partially agree with you there. The tongues even then were for a sign to unbelievers, and not an indispensable element for the Christians to communicate with the people who were present in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost. Yes, they did speak of the wonderful works of God in the languages from whence people originated (v. 11) -- which most certainly would have included the most recent wonderful works of God, the death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ. However, I would not say it was for communicating in the most specific sense, because it is obvious that the people at Jerusalem were able to communicate with one another in a common language (vv. 7, 12, 37) and the Gospel could be well communicated in that language. [I am also of the opinion that the sermon of Peter (14-36, 38-40) is not spoken in tongues, but that is not as obviously clear as the other point.]

 

[Hark]

And for communicating the Gospel for the salvation of lost sinners in Acts 2.

I still am kind of lost about the OP, though. I see no reason in participating any more in this thread. it's just not making sense to me. Is he for or against private tongues? Is he defending or attacking them?

A BB poster ought to be able to clearly and succinctly state his or her position.

I thought I was by the title itself on asking the question whether or not your Bible version proves tongues are not for private use.

Did you read post # 9 on 1 Corinthians 12:4-14 & 1 Corinthians 12:19-21 on why tongues can never be for private use?

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

The manifestations of the Spirit are to profit the body of Christ. It is the same Spirit.. there is no other way the Spirit operates as this is the same Spirit.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

This division of the gifts are divided among the assembly by that same Spirit. Paul goes on to address the manifestations of that same Spirit in the body of Christ at the assembly.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

This explains the manifestations of the Spirit in relation to the assembly of the body of Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

This testify that there is not another drink of the One Spirit for believers to get these gifts of the Spirit; not tongues; not prophesy, nor any other gift. There is no receiving the Holy Spirit again or another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues as happening separate from salvation. Indeed, it should be no wonder why interpretations do not come for that tongue by that second drink apart from salvation for why they assume it is for private use.

The following verses explains why tongues cannot be for private use as modern tongue speakers today that err, list all the benefits of tongues for private use as if they do not need the body of Christ for that gift. They can do everything by that tongue which is gibberish nonsense & yet they cannot tell what that tongue is doing in light of that list of benefits unless someone else interpret thus it is confusion to them which God is not the author of.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. KJV

 

[John of Japan]

I will only partially agree with you there. The tongues even then were for a sign to unbelievers, and not an indispensable element for the Christians to communicate with the people who were present in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost. Yes, they did speak of the wonderful works of God in the languages from whence people originated (v. 11) -- which most certainly would have included the most recent wonderful works of God, the death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ. However, I would not say it was for communicating in the most specific sense, because it is obvious that the people at Jerusalem were able to communicate with one another in a common language (vv. 7, 12, 37) and the Gospel could be well communicated in that language. [I am also of the opinion that the sermon of Peter (14-36, 38-40) is not spoken in tongues, but that is not as obviously clear as the other point.]

I agree that Peter's sermon was not in tongues. I fully believe that the many disciples witnessed in tongues, and though the text doesn't say they gave the Gospel per se, I can't imagine being there right after the resurrection of Christ and not talking about Christ!

 

[John of Japan]

I thought I was by the title itself on asking the question whether or not your Bible version proves tongues are not for private use.

Did you read post # 9 on 1 Corinthians 12:4-14 & 1 Corinthians 12:19-21 on why tongues can never be for private use?

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

The manifestations of the Spirit are to profit the body of Christ. It is the same Spirit.. there is no other way the Spirit operates as this is the same Spirit.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

This division of the gifts are divided among the assembly by that same Spirit. Paul goes on to address the manifestations of that same Spirit in the body of Christ at the assembly.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

This explains the manifestations of the Spirit in relation to the assembly of the body of Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

This testify that there is not another drink of the One Spirit for believers to get these gifts of the Spirit; not tongues; not prophesy, nor any other gift. There is no receiving the Holy Spirit again or another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues as happening separate from salvation. Indeed, it should be no wonder why interpretations do not come for that tongue by that second drink apart from salvation for why they assume it is for private use.

The following verses explains why tongues cannot be for private use as modern tongue speakers today that err, list all the benefits of tongues for private use as if they do not need the body of Christ for that gift. They can do everything by that tongue which is gibberish nonsense & yet they cannot tell what that tongue is doing in light of that list of benefits unless someone else interpret thus it is confusion to them which God is not the author of.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. KJV

Thanks for the clarification.

A bit of advice from an old timer on the BB: make your posts short and succinct and on target. Give references (which can be checked with a click of the mouse) but you don't have to quote the entirety of every verse. I really don't feel like reading your very long posts and then trying to figure out what you are trying to say.

As for tongues not being for private use, the reason that almost no one is posting in your thread is that almost no one who is Baptist here believes in tongues at all. So why argue with you.

 

[rlvaughn]

I agree that Peter's sermon was not in tongues. I fully believe that the many disciples witnessed in tongues, and though the text doesn't say they gave the Gospel per se, I can't imagine being there right after the resurrection of Christ and not talking about Christ!

No disagreement there. My point was that the disciples could have communicated with the people present without the gift of tongues, making the gift primarily for the purpose of a sign. I doubt that there is more than a fine frog hair's difference in what we think about it.

 

[Hark]

Thanks for the clarification.

A bit of advice from an old timer on the BB: make your posts short and succinct and on target. Give references (which can be checked with a click of the mouse) but you don't have to quote the entirety of every verse. I really don't feel like reading your very long posts and then trying to figure out what you are trying to say.

As for tongues not being for private use, the reason that almost no one is posting in your thread is that almost no one who is Baptist here believes in tongues at all. So why argue with you.

But " if " a Baptist wants to reprove those who do believe that tongues are for private use, they should rely on the KJV for the reasons why tongue users would use Romans 8:26-27 in modern Bibles for as explained in the OP.

I believe it is necessary because of 2 Timothy 2:15-16 as modern tongue speakers use tongues for self edification for why we serve Him by the scriptures for this hope in God to do per 2 Timothy 2:24-26

Acts 2nd chapter clearly has His disciples sharing the wonderful works of God in foreign languages that they did not know being native Galileans.

 

[Hark]

No disagreement there. My point was that the disciples could have communicated with the people present without the gift of tongues, making the gift primarily for the purpose of a sign. I doubt that there is more than a fine frog hair's difference in what we think about it.

Peter may had stepped up and spoke in the Jewish language to answer all devout Jews from all nations to clarify some accusations that they were drunk when in actuality, some of them were hearing foreign languages not known to them. Even though they all can testify that the disciples were speaking in their native tongue, but to others around them, they may not identify all the languages being spoken.

 

[John of Japan]

But " if " a Baptist wants to reprove those who do believe that tongues are for private use, they should rely on the KJV for the reasons why tongue users would use Romans 8:26-27 in modern Bibles for as explained in the OP.

Point taken.

I believe it is necessary because of 2 Timothy 2:15-16 as modern tongue speakers use tongues for self edification for why we serve Him by the scriptures for this hope in God to do per 2 Timothy 2:24-26

To me it is simpler to say that no one in the Bible ever used a "private tongue," that the word "tongue" both in 1611 and in the Greek simply meant "language," and no "private tongue" ever got a lost sinner saved (the purpose of tongues in Acts 2).

Acts 2nd chapter clearly has His disciples sharing the wonderful works of God in foreign languages that they did not know being native Galileans.

Absolutely correct.

 

[rlvaughn]

Peter may had stepped up and spoke in the Jewish language to answer all devout Jews from all nations to clarify some accusations that they were drunk when in actuality, some of them were hearing foreign languages not known to them. Even though they all can testify that the disciples were speaking in their native tongue, but to others around them, they may not identify all the languages being spoken.

Yes, I would agree. All to whom the disciples spoke realized they were speaking in the tongues of their nativity. However, others standing nearby who were not from that place likely did not understand that tongue. My impression is that most of the mockers would have been the locals, who would not have had another language of their nativity as did those who had come from other lands.

Verses 12 and 13 show the responders fall into two groups, those who were amazed but did not understand what it meant, and those who mocked.

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.