Do Calvinists Affirm Free Will then?

[Yeshua1]

I am a Calvinist who affirms it exactly as martin Luther did in the Bondage of the Will!

 

[Van]

Calvinist redefine the meaning of words, which means Calvinists can affirm Free Will, and have it mean Free only to choose outside the will of God, thus consistent with the Bondage of the Will.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I am a Calvinist who affirms it exactly as martin Luther did in the Bondage of the Will!

How can anyone have a free will that is bound? This whole Calvinist reformed stuff gets even more strange

 

[Yeshua1]

Calvinist redefine the meaning of words, which means Calvinists can affirm Free Will, and have it mean Free only to choose outside the will of God, thus consistent with the Bondage of the Will.

Is any choice made outside the will of God though?

 

[Yeshua1]

How can anyone have a free will that is bound? This whole Calvinist reformed stuff gets even more strange

Jesus stated that all before salvation are enslaved to the flesh and sin nature, correct?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Jesus stated that all before salvation are enslaved to the flesh and sin nature, correct?

But this does not mean that they are not responsible for their own actions. Many Christians after they are born again are still enslaved to some sin

 

[Van]

Is any choice made outside the will of God though?

Yes people choose to sin, which by definition is outside the will of God, but what Calvinism falsely claims is the lost cannot, due to the Fall, choose to seek God, as the people of Matthew 23:13 do, and cannot have faith in the truth, as the people of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 do.

 

[Yeshua1]

But this does not mean that they are not responsible for their own actions. Many Christians after they are born again are still enslaved to some sin

You just proved our case, as lost sinners will be held accountable for rejection of Jesus to save them from their sins!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes people choose to sin, which by definition is outside the will of God, but what Calvinism falsely claims is the lost cannot, due to the Fall, choose to seek God, as the people of Matthew 23:13 do, and cannot have faith in the truth, as the people of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 do.

Paul and Isaiah stated to us none seek after God, do you agree?

 

[Reformed1689]

Yes people choose to sin, which by definition is outside the will of God, but what Calvinism falsely claims is the lost cannot, due to the Fall, choose to seek God, as the people of Matthew 23:13 do, and cannot have faith in the truth, as the people of 2 Thessalonians 2:13 do.

It is more nuanced than that. It's not that they cannot theoretically choose God. It is just that they won't. Nobody seeks God. Matthew 23:13 has nothing to do with this topic as we have discussed with you ad nauseum. And I still to this day do not see how you think 2 Thessalonians 2:13 supports your position.

 

[Reformed1689]

Paul and Isaiah stated to us none seek after God, do you agree?

They obviously do not.

 

[Yeshua1]

They obviously do not.

That would make God out to be a Liar though!

 

[SavedByGrace]

You just proved our case, as lost sinners will be held accountable for rejection of Jesus to save them from their sins!

But reformed theology teaches that no sinner can accept or reject Jesus! God first regenerates their hearts and then they are enabled to call on Him for their salvation. Or is this no longer the case

 

[Reformed1689]

Calvinist redefine the meaning of words, which means Calvinists can affirm Free Will, and have it mean Free only to choose outside the will of God, thus consistent with the Bondage of the Will.

No, you are the one redefining things here. You literally define free will two different ways. 1. We have the freedom to choose anything. This is true. 2. We have the freedom to choose whatever we desire. This is also true. The question is, what IS our will? What IS our desire? We do not choose what we desire.

 

[Van]

It is more nuanced than that. It's not that they cannot theoretically choose God. It is just that they won't. Nobody seeks God. Matthew 23:13 has nothing to do with this topic as we have discussed with you ad nauseum. And I still to this day do not see how you think 2 Thessalonians 2:13 supports your position.

Redefining the meaning of seeking to enter the kingdom as not seeking God is complete rubbish, and your ad nauseum regurgitation of rubbish demonstrates your disdain for truth.

 

[SavedByGrace]

They obviously do not.

Isaiah 55.6

Seek the LORD while he may be found; call upon him while he is near

 

[Van]

No, you are the one redefining things here. You literally define free will two different ways. 1. We have the freedom to choose anything. This is true. 2. We have the freedom to choose whatever we desire. This is also true. The question is, what IS our will? What IS our desire? We do not choose what we desire.

Note that inability to address the issue? I said Calvinists define "free will" as consistent with the inability to choose other than outside the will of God. Was that addressed? Nope. Instead, this poster reads minds and tells us how I define "free will."

 

[Reformed1689]

Redefining the meaning of seeking to enter the kingdom as not seeking God is complete rubbish, and your ad nauseum regurgitation of rubbish demonstrates your disdain for truth.

I didn't redefine anything Van.

 

[Reformed1689]

Note that inability to address the issue? I said Calvinists define "free will" as consistent with the inability to choose other than outside the will of God. Was that addressed? Nope. Instead, this poster reads minds and tells us how I define "free will."

How about you interact with my post?

 

[SavedByGrace]

I think that this is yet another thread of strawmen arguments which the reformed not really knowing what they believe