Reformed V Biblical Salvation

[SavedByGrace]

"For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all" (Romans 11:30-32)

A much misused verse by the Reformed, is Romans 9:15, "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion". Which is supposed to teach, that God will only have Mercy on the "elect", while this saving Mercy, does not extend to the "non elect".

The passage in Romans 11 completely destroys this false teaching! Here the Apostle Paul is contrasting the Jews with the Gentiles, which is what the entire world is made up of. If you are "Jewish", then you are not a "Gentile", and vice-versa.

God, says Paul, has concluded "τους παντας", in unbelief, that He might have Mercy "τους παντας". Here Paul uses the plural with the Greek article, which denotes, "the whole mass", that is, "the whole of the human race". Though both uses of "τους παντας" are identical, and teach the same thing, this does not mean that Paul is teaching "universal salvation". This is denied by the use of the verb, "ελεηση", which is here used in the subjunctive, "denoting possibility". Only those who actually "repent and believe in the Gospel", as Jesus clearly says in Mark 1:15, will be saved. If they don't believe, they will be damned, as taught in John 3:18, 36; Mark 16:16, etc.

It is grave error to take verses out of their context, and without comparing them with the wider teachings of the Holy Bible, as is done by the Reformed here and elsewhere.

Salvation is freely available to every human ever born, but, it is CONDITIONAL, that the sinner follows what Jesus Christ says in Mark 1:15, and taught elsewhere in the Holy Bible

This IS Biblical Salvation.

 

[Yeshua1]

"For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all" (Romans 11:30-32)

A much misused verse by the Reformed, is Romans 9:15, "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion". Which is supposed to teach, that God will only have Mercy on the "elect", while this saving Mercy, does not extend to the "non elect".

The passage in Romans 11 completely destroys this false teaching! Here the Apostle Paul is contrasting the Jews with the Gentiles, which is what the entire world is made up of. If you are "Jewish", then you are not a "Gentile", and vice-versa.

God, says Paul, has concluded "τους παντας", in unbelief, that He might have Mercy "τους παντας". Here Paul uses the plural with the Greek article, which denotes, "the whole mass", that is, "the whole of the human race". Though both uses of "τους παντας" are identical, and teach the same thing, this does not mean that Paul is teaching "universal salvation". This is denied by the use of the verb, "ελεηση", which is here used in the subjunctive, "denoting possibility". Only those who actually "repent and believe in the Gospel", as Jesus clearly says in Mark 1:15, will be saved. If they don't believe, they will be damned, as taught in John 3:18, 36; Mark 16:16, etc.

It is grave error to take verses out of their context, and without comparing them with the wider teachings of the Holy Bible, as is done by the Reformed here and elsewhere.

Salvation is freely available to every human ever born, but, it is CONDITIONAL, that the sinner follows what Jesus Christ says in Mark 1:15, and taught elsewhere in the Holy Bible

This IS Biblical Salvation.

Biblical salvation is to see that calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus is something NONE can do unless and until enabled to do such by the Holy Spirit!

 

[SavedByGrace]

enabled to do such by the Holy Spirit!

so the Holy Spirit must "enable" the sinner to respond? is this before of after they repent and believe?

 

[Yeshua1]

so the Holy Spirit must "enable" the sinner to respond? is this before of after they repent and believe?

No lost sinner can do anything required by God before enabled by the Spirit to do such!

 

[SavedByGrace]

No lost sinner can do anything required by God before enabled by the Spirit to do such!

Jesus says, "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin...Of sin, because they believe not on me" (John 16:8-9).

ἐλέγξει is used for "convict, expose, rebuke", but never for "enable"

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus says, "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin...Of sin, because they believe not on me" (John 16:8-9).

ἐλέγξει is used for "convict, expose, rebuke", but never for "enable"

He regenerates and grants to them to get saved faith!

 

[AustinC]

"For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all" (Romans 11:30-32)

A much misused verse by the Reformed, is Romans 9:15, "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion". Which is supposed to teach, that God will only have Mercy on the "elect", while this saving Mercy, does not extend to the "non elect".

The passage in Romans 11 completely destroys this false teaching! Here the Apostle Paul is contrasting the Jews with the Gentiles, which is what the entire world is made up of. If you are "Jewish", then you are not a "Gentile", and vice-versa.

God, says Paul, has concluded "τους παντας", in unbelief, that He might have Mercy "τους παντας". Here Paul uses the plural with the Greek article, which denotes, "the whole mass", that is, "the whole of the human race". Though both uses of "τους παντας" are identical, and teach the same thing, this does not mean that Paul is teaching "universal salvation". This is denied by the use of the verb, "ελεηση", which is here used in the subjunctive, "denoting possibility". Only those who actually "repent and believe in the Gospel", as Jesus clearly says in Mark 1:15, will be saved. If they don't believe, they will be damned, as taught in John 3:18, 36; Mark 16:16, etc.

It is grave error to take verses out of their context, and without comparing them with the wider teachings of the Holy Bible, as is done by the Reformed here and elsewhere.

Salvation is freely available to every human ever born, but, it is CONDITIONAL, that the sinner follows what Jesus Christ says in Mark 1:15, and taught elsewhere in the Holy Bible

This IS Biblical Salvation.

LOL, the very title of this thread shows us the irony of the thread. More than anything else, Reformed theology is biblical theology. The fact that you miss this truth makes your commentary nearly irrelevant.

 

[SavedByGrace]

He regenerates and grants to them to get saved faith!

"Regeneration", according to Titus 3:5, is being "born-again", where the term is from the Greek, "παλινγενεσίας", which Paul uses here. According to you, and those who agree with your theology. the Holy Spirit first causes the sinner to be "born-again", and then they "get saved", which is also being "born-again". So the sinner is "born-again" TWICE!!!

 

[Yeshua1]

LOL, the very title of this thread shows us the irony of the thread. More than anything else, Reformed theology is biblical theology. The fact that you miss this truth makes your commentary nearly irrelevant.

Not saying that he does, but many against reformed theology seem to want a salvation where we somehow help God out to save us!

 

[Yeshua1]

"Regeneration", according to Titus 3:5, is being "born-again", where the term is from the Greek, "παλινγενεσίας", which Paul uses here. According to you, and those who agree with your theology. the Holy Spirit first causes the sinner to be "born-again", and then they "get saved", which is also being "born-again". So the sinner is "born-again" TWICE!!!

Regenerated unto salvation, to becoming "born again"

 

[SavedByGrace]

Regenerated unto salvation, to becoming "born again"

But, Biblically speaking, "Regeneration", as Titus 3:5 says, IS being BORN AGAIN!

 

[canadyjd]

……

Salvation is freely available to every human ever born, but, it is CONDITIONAL, that the sinner follows what Jesus Christ says in Mark 1:15, and taught elsewhere in the Holy Bible

This IS Biblical Salvation.

Is salvation available to every human ever born, even if they never hear the gospel of Jesus Christ?

How can salvation be “available” to every human ever born if the gospel is required?

peace to you

 

[tyndale1946]

Is salvation available to every human ever born, even if they never hear the gospel of Jesus Christ?

How can salvation be “available” to every human ever born if the gospel is required?

peace to you

Well I guess if we want to we can go to Ezekiel 11:19

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Or we can even go to Ezekiel 36:26

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Or we can go to Jeremiah 31:33

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

So where is the New Testament?

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

But I am particular I like my Christianity in action!

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:

2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Brother Glen

 

[SavedByGrace]

Well I guess if we want to we can go to Ezekiel 11:19

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Or we can even go to Ezekiel 36:26

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Or we can go to Jeremiah 31:33

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

So where is the New Testament?

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

But I am particular I like my Christianity in action!

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:

2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Brother Glen

Thanks Bro Glen. You have not answered the OP!

 

[Dave G]

A much misused verse by the Reformed, is Romans 9:15, "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion". Which is supposed to teach, that God will only have Mercy on the "elect", while this saving Mercy, does not extend to the "non elect".

The Bible teaches that God, in His infinite wisdom, has chosen to have mercy and compassion on whom He will, and whom He wills he hardens ( reprobates, or purposefully leaves in their sins for judgment ).
If you'll read the entirety of Romans 9, you will see that salvation is limited to those He has afore prepared unto glory ( Romans 9:22-24 ), and no others.

There are both vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath.
He makes both for His own purposes.

 

[Dave G]

The passage in Romans 11 completely destroys this false teaching! Here the Apostle Paul is contrasting the Jews with the Gentiles, which is what the entire world is made up of. If you are "Jewish", then you are not a "Gentile", and vice-versa.

Romans 11 contrasts saved Israel with reprobate Israel ( Romans 11:1-12 ), while informing believing Gentiles that they were included into that salvation by using the example of an olive tree... and the Gentile elect, from a wild olive tree, being "grafted in" to the very same covenant ( tree ). See Romans 11:13-32.

God, says Paul, has concluded "τους παντας", in unbelief, that He might have Mercy "τους παντας". Here Paul uses the plural with the Greek article, which denotes, "the whole mass", that is, "the whole of the human race". Though both uses of "τους παντας" are identical, and teach the same thing, this does not mean that Paul is teaching "universal salvation". This is denied by the use of the verb, "ελεηση", which is here used in the subjunctive, "denoting possibility". Only those who actually "repent and believe in the Gospel", as Jesus clearly says in Mark 1:15, will be saved. If they don't believe, they will be damned, as taught in John 3:18, 36; Mark 16:16, etc.

Amen.

 

[Dave G]

It is grave error to take verses out of their context, and without comparing them with the wider teachings of the Holy Bible, as is done by the Reformed here and elsewhere.

I agree.
It very definitely is a grave error to take verses out of context and assume that God loves everyone and wants to save everyone, when that is not what the Bible teaches in its entirety.

According to many passages which describe God being selective when it comes to His grace, His purposes according to election will stand...

Not "of" works, but "of" Him that calls.
This was explained to the believers at Rome using the example of Jacob and Esau in Romans 9.

Salvation is freely available to every human ever born, but, it is CONDITIONAL, that the sinner follows what Jesus Christ says in Mark 1:15, and taught elsewhere in the Holy Bible

My friend, that is the grave error that I was referencing above.

God's gift of eternal life is not conditional...this is what makes it all of grace.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The Bible teaches that God, in His infinite wisdom, has chosen to have mercy and compassion on whom He will, and whom He wills he hardens ( reprobates, or purposefully leaves in their sins for judgment ).
If you'll read the entirety of Romans 9, you will see that salvation is limited to those He has afore prepared unto glory ( Romans 9:22-24 ), and no others.

There are both vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath.
He makes both for His own purposes.

In Romans 9.22 we read of God bearing with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath. Why, unless He wants these to repent and be saved

 

[SavedByGrace]

I agree.
It very definitely is a grave error to take verses out of context and assume that God loves everyone and wants to save everyone, when that is not what the Bible teaches in its entirety.

According to many passages, His purposes according to election will stand...
As an example, this was explained to the believers at Rome using the example of Jacob and Esau in Romans 9.

My friend, that is the grave error that I was referencing above.
God's gift of eternal life is not conditional...this is what makes it all of grace.

No, it is not.

What you're describing is a merit-based system where God "paves the way", and all we as men have to do is "take Him up on His offer"...
I'm sorry, but that could not be further from the truth.

For God so loves the entire human race, is what the Greek says in John 3:16. God does not desire that any person is lost, with is taught in 2 Peter 3:9 and 1 Timothy 2:1-6, and elsewhere. This is how these verses are read as the Bible intends, without personal theology

 

[SavedByGrace]

I agree.
It very definitely is a grave error to take verses out of context and assume that God loves everyone and wants to save everyone, when that is not what the Bible teaches in its entirety.

According to many passages, His purposes according to election will stand...
As an example, this was explained to the believers at Rome using the example of Jacob and Esau in Romans 9.

My friend, that is the grave error that I was referencing above.
God's gift of eternal life is not conditional...this is what makes it all of grace.

No, it is not.

What you're describing is a merit-based system where God "paves the way", and all we as men have to do is "take Him up on His offer"...
I'm sorry, but that could not be further from the truth.
Salvation, which is accompanied by eternal life which is to know God and His Son for all eternity, is completely unconditional as well as being a completely unmerited gift...
It is not a reward for doing what God requires of us.



May God bless you, sir.

Biblical salvation is all of Grace, with zero "works", as Romans 11:6 tells us, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace"