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Faith # 3

B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
New Birth before Faith !

One of the most obvious truths of scripture, which is that New Birth or being born of the Spirit must have first occurred before one can believe on Christ for Salvation, this is true simply because such an act is pleasing to God Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

1 Jn 3:22-2337

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Now surely from here we see that Believing on the Name of Jesus Christ is a commandment we do or keep that pleases God.

And yet we know that they which are in the flesh [Unregenerate] cannot please God Per Rom 8:8 !

Hence if one does please God by by believing on the name of Jesus Christ, then it stands to reason, that such a one had to be not in the flesh, not in a unregenerate state, but one who instead that had been born of the Spirit be able to do it and to please God !
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Okay fine and you won't see my answer to that verse since you refuse to discuss the points of my post.
Click to expand...
I did not refuse. Your first point does not make sense:
Brightfame52 said:
New Birth before Faith !

One of the most obvious truths of scripture, which is that New Birth or being born of the Spirit must have first occurred before one can believe on Christ for Salvation, this is true simply because such an act is pleasing to God Heb 11:6
Click to expand...
It is not obvious.
The third verse in my signature.
1 John 5:1, "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . ." Of course a person who is born from God believes in His Christ. How does this fact prove the new birth must occur first in order to have that faith. It cannot.
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
It is not obvious.
The third verse in my signature.
1 John 5:1, "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . ." Of course a person who is born from God believes in His Christ. How does this fact prove the new birth must occur first in order to have that faith. It cannot.
Click to expand...
Here, take another look...

" Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him." ( 1 John 5:1 ).

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ...
IS born of God...not "will be" born of God.

" He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." ( John 3:36 ).

Similar in the above....
Has everlasting life.

" Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." ( John 5:24 ).

Has everlasting life...not just "will have".


If someone believes on Christ, it's because they already have everlasting life.
They've already passed from death unto life.:)
 
Last edited:
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
Here, take another look...

" Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him." ( 1 John 5:1 ).

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ...
IS born of God...not "will be" born of God.

" He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." ( John 3:36 ).

Similar in the above....
Has everlasting life.

" Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." ( John 5:24 ).

Has everlasting life...not just "will have".


If someone believes on Christ, it's because they already have everlasting life.
They've already passed from death unto life.:)
Click to expand...
@Dave G
All and everyone who has been born of God who have eternal life of course believe the gospel. This undeniable truth cannot and does not remove faith in the gospel prior to salvation.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
The Faith of Christ or out of Christ !

All those Christ died for are given a portion or dealt a portion of His Faith, The Faith of the Son of God Gal 2:20

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

By which He in their stead and in their behalf overcome the World Jn 16:3338

33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Now understand, Jesus statement here is not as a Private Individual Person, but as an Head and Representative of His Church, and the Overcoming Faith that He has, it is communicated to All His Members in the New Birth and so they become overcomer's by their Gift of Faith given them from Him, the faith of the Son of God 1 Jn 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Its easy to see here that the Faith is born of God !

In the original Faith of the Son of God is genitive which means:

For the most part, the genitive is often viewed as the case of possession. In more technical terms one noun in the genitive case helps to qualify another noun by showing its "class" or "kind". The genitive case has more uses than most other cases, but in general a noun in the genitive case helps to limit the scope of another noun by indicating its "kind" or "class".

Greek Nouns (Shorter Definitions)

Thats what Kind of Faith Paul had " Of the Son of God" which is a overcoming Faith !
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
No I will not, you refuse to discuss my points !
Click to expand...
I did, and you did not reply.
37818 said:
I did not refuse. Your first point does not make sense:

It is not obvious.
The third verse in my signature.
1 John 5:1, "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . ." Of course a person who is born from God believes in His Christ. How does this fact prove the new birth must occur first in order to have that faith. It cannot.
Click to expand...
Well?
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
1 Jn 3:22-2337

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Now surely from here we see that Believing on the Name of Jesus Christ is a commandment we do or keep that pleases God.

And yet we know that they which are in the flesh [Unregenerate] cannot please God Per Rom 8:8 !

Hence if one does please God by by believing on the name of Jesus Christ, then it stands to reason, that such a one had to be not in the flesh, not in a unregenerate state, but one who instead that had been born of the Spirit be able to do it and to please God !
Click to expand...
The two commandments which those who are born of God obey do not prove that faith does no come before the new birth. Galatians 3:14.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
The two commandments which those who are born of God obey do not prove that faith does no come before the new birth. Galatians 3:14.
Click to expand...
Well the natural man cannot please God Rom 8:8, neither can he obey Gods command Rom 8:7 ! You see the light now ? I had already mentioned Rom 8:8 before, you obviously ignored it.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Well the natural man cannot please God Rom 8:8, neither can he obey Gods command Rom 8:7 ! You see the light now ? I had already mentioned Rom 8:8 before, you obviously ignored it.
Click to expand...
Romans 8:7-8, ". . . Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. . . ." The condition of man before receiving the Spirit through faith, Galatians 3:14, ". . . receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. . . ."
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Romans 8:7-8, ". . . Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. . . ." The condition of man before receiving the Spirit through faith, Galatians 3:14, ". . . receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. . . ."
Click to expand...
Those in the flesh are unregenerate and have no faith, they cant please God ! They cant obey God.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Those in the flesh are unregenerate and have no faith, they cant please God ! They cant obey God.
Click to expand...
You cannot hear? The promise of the Spirit is through faith. Galatians 3:14 and Romans 4:5, ". . . But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. . . ."
 
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