1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The New Jewish Publication Society Tanakh

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Humble Disciple, Jul 8, 2021.

  1. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    742
    Likes Received:
    38
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am reading the Old Testament from beginning to end for the first time, using the New Jewish Publication Society Tanakh:



    I am now at the Book of Isaiah. While the local Chabad rabbi recommended to me the Artscroll translation, which is more expensive, the local Conservative rabbi recommended the NJPS Tanakh. Orthodox rabbis seem to recommend the Artscroll translation more often, though Orthodox rabbis and scholars participated in the NJPS translation.

    Unlike their 1917 translation, the new JPS Tanakh was entirely original and not based on any previous Christian translation. It's both relatively easy to read and accurate to the traditional Masoretic text. The Hebrew Bible is coming alive to me in a way I never imagined.

    The word Tanakh is derived from the traditional threefold division of the Hebrew Bible, the Torah (law), Nevi'im (prophets), and Kethuvim (writings). In Luke 24:44, Jesus refers to this threefold division of the Hebrew canon.

    A significant difference between the Hebrew Tanakh and Christian translations is that the Books of Chronicles are included at the very end, in order to summarize the story of the Hebrew Bible. In Christian versions, people often skip over the Books of Chronicles, thinking that it's just a repeat of the Books of Kings.

    [​IMG]
     
    #1 Humble Disciple, Jul 8, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2021
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,162
    Likes Received:
    163
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What Christians view as Messianic prophecies regarding Jesus tend to be altered or watered down in this translation.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,513
    Likes Received:
    3,047
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well.........Yeah!
     
  4. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    742
    Likes Received:
    38
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think it depends on which verse one is speaking about. For example, "like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet" might be a more accurate rendering of the Masoretic text in Psalm 22:16, a verse which isn't quoted in the New Testament.

    Also, the authors of the New Testament quoted from the Greek Septuagint, and the Hebrew text that the translators of the Septuagint used might have been different in certain verses than the Masoretic text. I don't believe the Jewish people deliberately perverted their own scriptures to remove messianic prophecies.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I do not think that they intionally went into the Hebrew and did the edit feature on everything that looked like was speaking to Jesus, but do think they did not read back into any of the OT Jesus Messianic references either!
     
  6. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    742
    Likes Received:
    38
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I can agree with you on that, but I also think the translators of the NJPS Tanakh tried to be as accurate as possible in translating the Masoretic text, and they even used non-Jewish sources in helping them make an accurate translation.

    When I read Isaiah 53 in the NJPS Tanakh, for example, it's obvious to me that Isaiah is speaking about the sufferings of Christ. Rabbinic sources, however, have maintained for centuries that the Suffering Servant is symbolic of Israel's sufferings as a whole.

    I think that both of these interpretations of Isaiah 53 can be true at the same time, just as Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:12-18 describe both the fall of Lucifer from heaven and the fall of historical, earthly kings:

     
  7. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    2,062
    Likes Received:
    334
    Faith:
    Baptist
    the oldest Dead Sea scroll has “pierced my hands and feet.
     
  8. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    742
    Likes Received:
    38
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Can you please provide some evidence?
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,849
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Faith:
    Baptist
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    2,062
    Likes Received:
    334
    Faith:
    Baptist
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,849
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The 1985 JPS Genesis 15:6, And because he put his trust in the LORD, He reckoned it to his merit.

    The 1917 JPS has, And he believed in the LORD; and He counted it to him for righteousness.

    The same Hebrew.
     
  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,162
    Likes Received:
    163
    Faith:
    Baptist
    >The same Hebrew

    But the 1917 JPS renders the verse more accurately (e.g. צדכה as "righteousness" rather than "merit").
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2019
    Messages:
    2,062
    Likes Received:
    334
    Faith:
    Baptist
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Think they were see the OT same way the net Bible team, as both tried to translate just as was in OT, and not try to read back into the OT the NT views regarding how they saw jesus back in the OT!
     
  15. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    742
    Likes Received:
    38
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Can you please explain the difference of meaning? Please keep in mind that the 1917 version was adapted from Christian translations, while the 1985 version was entirely new.
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,849
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The word צְדָקָֽה translated "it to him for righteousness" is being, as far as I know at this time, is translated only once as, "it to his merit." Appearently an attemp to counter the Christian interpreation as found in Romans 4:2-5 ,"For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." But I suppose if we can argue, that "merit" was an undeserved, unearned, merit in Genesis 15:6 that might work. By reason faith is not counted as a work.
    Compare this other modern Jewish translation, "And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him as righteousness." https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8210/jewish/Chapter-15.htm
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    742
    Likes Received:
    38
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, that's what I mean.
     
  18. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    11,184
    Likes Received:
    2,489
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well I know very little about translations but I do have a book I enjoy written by a Jew... The Life and Times Of Jesus The Messiah written by Alfred Edersheim... He didn't water down anything!... I happen to know its in your library too, it still is isn't it?... Brother Glen:)
     
  19. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,513
    Likes Received:
    3,047
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Love love love Edersheim...:)
     
  20. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    11,184
    Likes Received:
    2,489
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Me too!... :Thumbsup:Thumbsup... Brother Glen:)
     
Loading...