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N. T. Wright on Predestination and Election

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Humble Disciple, Aug 3, 2021.

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  1. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Since N. T. Wright is the gold standard of conservative Biblical scholarship today, it's worth hearing what he has to say about predestination and election as taught in scripture:



    It seems Wright understands election as a corporate election of the church, for anyone who freely chooses to be in Christ, rather than individual souls to salvation determined at the beginning of time.

    As election was understood for Israel in the Old Testament, election was for Israel as a whole, rather than individuals to salvation.

    The New Testament term for the church "ekklesia," which is related to the English word "elect," was also used for the people of Israel in the Greek Septuagint.

    The Corporate View of Election

    The main difference between Calvinists and non-Calvinists is not whether God's enabling grace is necessary to repent and believe the Gospel, but whether this enabling grace is given to all people equally or just a select few:

     
    #1 Humble Disciple, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    He absolutely is not! Much of his teaching is unorthodox.
     
    #2 Martin Marprelate, Aug 3, 2021
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  3. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Who said he was orthodox?

    he redefines the Gospel
     
    #3 Marooncat79, Aug 3, 2021
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  4. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    #4 Humble Disciple, Aug 3, 2021
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  5. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    #5 Humble Disciple, Aug 3, 2021
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  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Why don't you substantiate your claim that Wright is the gold standard of conservative Biblical scholarship? After all, bearing false witness is a sin, isn't it?
    There are numerous critiques of Wright's theology. Two that I have to hand are The Future of Justification by John Piper and The Great Exchange by Philip Eveson. I can quote you some extracts if you like.

    And election is individual, not corporate, and was even under the Old Covenant (e.g. Isaiah 1:9; Jeremiah 3:14; 9:25-26 etc.).
     
    #6 Martin Marprelate, Aug 3, 2021
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  7. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    upload_2021-8-3_16-48-14.jpeg

    If you have specific quotes from N. T. Wright which demonstrate him contradicting scripture, please share them.

    Like a good Berean, people can be trusted to read this article and form their own conclusions:
    The Corporate View of Election
     
    #7 Humble Disciple, Aug 3, 2021
  8. Rob_BW

    Rob_BW Well-Known Member
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    I may need to reevaluate my cessationism, because this thread went exactly as I thought it would.
    :Roflmao
     
    #8 Rob_BW, Aug 3, 2021
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  9. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

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    Those who insist that N. T. Wright has a defective understanding of atonement need to look at this thread:

    Anabaptists on the Atonement of Christ

    Knowledge of church history is an antidote to Calvinism.
     
    #9 Humble Disciple, Aug 3, 2021
  10. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    :Rolleyes You are the one who accuses everyone who disagrees with you of false witness

    For this you will have to wait until later tonight (GB time) or tomorrow. It's a while since I studied anything by Wright and, Praise God, he is not as popular in Britain as he appears to be in the USA, so I need to do a bit of study.
    Erm.......The Bereans (very wisely) did not examine articles by Leighton Flowers, but examined the Scriptures daily (Acts 17:11). I commend the same practice to you. :Tongue
     
    #10 Martin Marprelate, Aug 4, 2021
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  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    NT Wrong is NOT any gold standard, as he is the one whose mission has been to undermine Pauline Justification!
     
    #11 Yeshua1, Aug 4, 2021
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Sometime border on heresy!
     
    #12 Yeshua1, Aug 4, 2021
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    as do all false teachers and heretics!
     
    #13 Yeshua1, Aug 4, 2021
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Corporate under Old Covenant, as the nation was elect of God, but individual in the new, as Jesus died in the place of his own!
     
    #14 Yeshua1, Aug 4, 2021
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    #15 Yeshua1, Aug 4, 2021
  16. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Election is for the Jew. Gentiles are not elect. There are no elect Gentiles in scripture.
    MB
     
    #16 MB, Aug 4, 2021
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  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    If one was not elected by God, were not saved!
     
    #17 Yeshua1, Aug 4, 2021
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    #18 37818, Aug 4, 2021
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Colossians 3:11-12, ". . . Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy . . . ."
     
    #19 37818, Aug 4, 2021
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  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    #20 Yeshua1, Aug 4, 2021
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