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Twin Truths: God’s Sovereignty and Man’s Responsibility

SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Iconoclast said:
A Calvinist is consistent 24/7.
Your reaction indicates you are looking to do battle with the caricature of the teaching, rather than the truth.
Recently a thread asked is Paul Washer a Calvinist.
Every Calvinist knows the answer by listening, but non cals do not believe Calvinists urge people to obey the gospel command to repent and believe
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JM is very clear that all humans are responsible to "believe" in the Gospel Message, which also includes "repenting", as per Mark 1:15; Acts 2:37-38, 3:19, Luke 24:47. This is standard non-theological Bible teaching for those who want to know.
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
JM is very clear that all humans are responsible to "believe" in the Gospel Message, which also includes "repenting", as per Mark 1:15; Acts 2:37-38, 3:19, Luke 24:47. This is standard non-theological Bible teaching for those who want to know.
Click to expand...
Of course. That is constantly preached in Calvinist churches.

non theological bible teaching is an oxymoron
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Iconoclast said:
Of course. That is constantly preached in Calvinist churches.

non theological bible teaching is an oxymoron
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not really, there are many even on here who do not believe that a sinner must "repent and believe", but only "believe", as they see "repentance" as a "work".
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
not really, there are many even on here who do not believe that a sinner must "repent and believe", but only "believe", as they see "repentance" as a "work".
Click to expand...
Could you direct me to such a post?
All 1689 churches stress repentance and faith.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Iconoclast said:
A Calvinist is consistent 24/7.
Your reaction indicates you are looking to do battle with the caricature of the teaching, rather than the truth.
Recently a thread asked is Paul Washer a Calvinist.
Every Calvinist knows the answer by listening, but non cals do not believe Calvinists urge people to obey the gospel command to repent and believe
Click to expand...
LOL, Calvinism is incoherent and unbiblical.
First is the claim God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, which would include our every sin, and then says God is not the author of sin. Thus incoherent.
Then it falsely claims no one ever seeks after God, when Matthew 23:13 teaches people were entering the kingdom, thus seeking God. Therefore unbiblical.
The biblical view of God sovereignty is God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass, therefore God is not the author of sin.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Iconoclast said:
A Calvinist is consistent 24/7.
Your reaction indicates you are looking to do battle with the caricature of the teaching, rather than the truth.
Recently a thread asked is Paul Washer a Calvinist.
Every Calvinist knows the answer by listening, but non cals do not believe Calvinists urge people to obey the gospel command to repent and believe
Click to expand...


"Calvinists urge people to obey the gospel command to repent and believe" but why would you do that since you calvinists keep saying that man has no free will so how could they decide to repent and believe. Remember calvinists tell us that you have to be regenerated/saved before you can believe. Calvinists find to real hard to be consistent with their theology.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
indeed, but he is not a "Calvinist" in this video!
Click to expand...

I agree that JM is clear in this video that we must believe if we are to be saved. Calvinism says we must be saved to believe. But if you listen to most calvinists they have to be biblical not calvinist when they present the gospel.

Just listen to JM in the above video
To summarize what JM says

Only God can save
You must believe before you can be saved
God will save you if you believe

Or to put it clearly Faith precedes Salvation.


or Todd Friel here :

In both videos these calvinsts say: You have to repent You have to believe, but how can all those sinners do any of that? I know, because of Gods' grace that He gives us so we can hear the gospel and believe the gospel and repent and be saved. Eph 1:13
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Silverhair said:
"Calvinists urge people to obey the gospel command to repent and believe" but why would you do that since you calvinists keep saying that man has no free will so how could they decide to repent and believe. Remember calvinists tell us that you have to be regenerated/saved before you can believe. Calvinists find to real hard to be consistent with their theology.
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Hello SH,
Good question.
When an unwilling sinner believes God, that is evidence that the Spirit of God has given him a Divine heart transplant.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments,
and do them.

Once people are given a new heart they are made willing by the Love of God welcomed in the new heart...
psalm 110:3
Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Iconoclast said:
Hello SH,
Good question.
When an unwilling sinner believes God, that is evidence that the Spirit of God has given him a Divine heart transplant.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments,
and do them.

Once people are given a new heart they are made willing by the Love of God welcomed in the new heart...
psalm 110:3
Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
Click to expand...

But see that is where the problem comes in. As calvinists you have people saved before they believe. Sorry not biblical. The verse references that you gave Eze 36:26-27 are God speaking to Israel and thus are a stretch to use them for everyone. This is clear when you look at the number of scriptures that say we are to believe to be saved. God gives us grace so that we can believe but He does not give us faith or believe for us.
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Silverhair said:
But see that is where the problem comes in. As calvinists you have people saved before they believe. Sorry not biblical. The verse references that you gave Eze 36:26-27 are God speaking to Israel and thus are a stretch to use them for everyone. This is clear when you look at the number of scriptures that say we are to believe to be saved. God gives us grace so that we can believe but He does not give us faith or believe for us.
Click to expand...
God spoke to Israel because they were the only nation to get special revelation.
Salvation and its parts happen simultaneously.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Iconoclast said:
God spoke to Israel because they were the only nation to get special revelation.
Salvation and its parts happen simultaneously.
Click to expand...
I keep thinking of that saying, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse." If someone goes barreling through a town doing 50 in a 25, if they get pulled over, they are guilty of breaking that law, even if they don't even know it. Same with the Law. Those who never hear the gospel and die outside of God's grace are still condemned, seeing they have the works of the Law written on their hearts.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Martin Marprelate said:
No we don't. They are elect before they believe, but they are saved when they believe.
Read the quote from William Tyndale in my signature. It was written when Calvin was still in short pants.
Click to expand...
They conflate election with salvation, regeneration with conversion, and they say they know Calvinism as good, or better, than we do? O O
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SovereignGrace said:
Those who never hear the gospel and die outside of God's grace are still condemned
Click to expand...

Such hardline restrictivism, the logical conclusion of 'means regeneration' doctrine. Blows my mind. You people make allowances for infants and those otherwise incapacitated but won't extend the same exceptions to those who have never heard.

SovereignGrace said:
seeing they have the works of the Law written on their hearts.
Click to expand...

If they have the law written in their hearts they are regenerate, justified, Jews inwardly,.....
 
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