Two Elections, First Corporate, Then Individual

[Silverhair]

Wrong.

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1

I find it strange that the ones that keep saying God is sovereign, which He is, then also say that He can not do this or that. I think that A. W. Tozer said it well.

Here is my view “God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, ‘What are you doing?’ Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.”

The Knowledge of the Holy: The Attributes of God A. W. Tozer

You are afraid to let God be God and that is the real sad part for you. You can not enjoy the love of God as He intended but only through the lens of your theology.

 

[kyredneck]

I find it strange that the ones that

I find it strange that the ones like you that write the windiest posts know the least.

 

[kyredneck]

Yet another off topic post disparaging rather than disputing. Why this sort of posts are allowed to derail biblical discussion is mind boggling.

You are so like a Broken record You must keep your insults on a pad next to you so you can cut and paste them when ever you want.
MB

Yet another off topic post of disparagement from MB.

ROFL!!!

Priceless.

the Van vs MB was priceless

 

[agedman]

You can make all the assertions that you want but since you are not God then I think I will let Him do as He wishes. If that is corporate election so be it.
What does surprise me is that your the one that insists that He has picked out a special group before hand, that would be corporate election, then argue against corporate election. You have to make up your mind.

I believe that God has given man the free will to accept or reject Christ Jesus and all those that accept Christ Jesus are one body, in other words we form a corporate entity.

Prior to salvation, what freedom of the will is available?

Are not all enslaved to the bondage of the flesh and the desires of it?

Are you also a subscriber to the unbiblical prevenient Grace thinking?

 

[Van]

ROFL!!!

Priceless.

Yet another mindless post by those who disparage and have little to say concerning the fact Ephesians 1:4 is precluded of being a reference to our individual election, and therefore refers to our corporate election. That folks is the topic being ignored by these disparagement only posters.

 

[agedman]

I find it strange that the ones that keep saying God is sovereign, which He is, then also say that He can not do this or that. I think that A. W. Tozer said it well.

Here is my view “God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, ‘What are you doing?’ Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.”

The Knowledge of the Holy: The Attributes of God A. W. Tozer

You are afraid to let God be God and that is the real sad part for you. You can not enjoy the love of God as He intended but only through the lens of your theology.

Tozer spoke and wrote a number of good things, however that does not mean he replaced the Scripture teaching.

such verses as:

“All the Father gives me will come to me…”
“…he that believes not is condemned already….”
“All have sinned …”
​

do not support Tozer’s thinking as you posted it.

I am not arguing with one long dead, but encouraging you to not merely take anyone’s words as fact unless first sifting them through the Scriptures as Paul states should be done.

 

[agedman]

Yet another mindless post by those who disparage and have little to say concerning the fact Ephesians 1:4 is precluded of being a reference to our individual election, and therefore refers to our corporate election. That folks is the topic being ignored by these disparagement only posters.

Will you persist in denial?

 

[kyredneck]

Yet another mindless post by those who disparage and have little to say concerning the fact Ephesians 1:4 is precluded of being a reference to our individual election, and therefore refers to our corporate election. That folks is the topic being ignored by these disparagement only posters.

Van, you (and @MB) are two of the worst at insulting and disparaging on this board...and you don't even see it. That's why we're laughing and call it 'priceless'.

 

[Marooncat79]

Wrong.

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1

So you are saying there is unconditional election

 

[agedman]

So you are saying there is unconditional election

How could election have conditions when the person has nothing and salvation is totally of God?

“All the Father gives Me will come…”

 

[Van]

Will you persist in denial?

Yet another mindless post by those who disparage and have little to say concerning the fact Ephesians 1:4 is precluded of being a reference to our individual election, and therefore refers to our corporate election. That folks is the topic being ignored by these disparagement only posters.

 

[Van]

Van, you (and @MB) are two of the worst at insulting and disparaging on this board...and you don't even see it. That's why we're laughing and call it 'priceless'.

Yet another mindless post by those who disparage and have little to say concerning the fact Ephesians 1:4 is precluded of being a reference to our individual election, and therefore refers to our corporate election. That folks is the topic being ignored by these disparagement only posters.

 

[Revmitchell]

How could election have conditions when the person has nothing and salvation is totally of God?

“All the Father gives Me will come…”

when God sets the conditions then it is totally of God.

the verse you quoted is out of context

 

[Silverhair]

How could election have conditions when the person has nothing and salvation is totally of God?

“All the Father gives Me will come…”

Please learn to read the bible and get away from that man made theology you keep pushing.

 

[Silverhair]

Tozer spoke and wrote a number of good things, however that does not mean he replaced the Scripture teaching.

such verses as:

“All the Father gives me will come to me…”
“…he that believes not is condemned already….”
“All have sinned …”
​

do not support Tozer’s thinking as you posted it.

I am not arguing with one long dead, but encouraging you to not merely take anyone’s words as fact unless first sifting them through the Scriptures as Paul states should be done.

I agree and that is good advice for you to follow. Look at scripture not your man made theology. If you did that then perhaps you would really come to understand what the plan of God is.

 

[AustinC]

I believe that God has given man the free will to accept or reject Christ Jesus...

In this belief, God becomes of little importance as the most important thing in salvation becomes the will of man.

Romans 5 and 8 makes your assertion void.

Romans 5:1-2,6-11

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained accessby faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to Godby the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

Romans 8:29-30

For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

In "Freedom of the Will" Jonathan Edwards dismantles your assertion. It would be good if you read it. I point you to a short excerpt in the link below as an opportunity for you to see why you are wrong in your assertion.

Jonathan Edwards on Free Will | Christian History Institute

 

[AustinC]

I find it strange that the ones that keep saying God is sovereign, which He is, then also say that He can not do this or that. I think that A. W. Tozer said it well.

Here is my view “God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, ‘What are you doing?’ Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.”

The Knowledge of the Holy: The Attributes of God A. W. Tozer

You are afraid to let God be God and that is the real sad part for you. You can not enjoy the love of God as He intended but only through the lens of your theology.

If a person can only lift 100 lbs and no more, it matters not if he attempts to lift 101 lbs or 1000 lbs, that person, by his own choice, cannot lift the weight. That person may attempt to will it into being, but that person has no capacity to do so. No act of the will can change the fact that the person cannot lift more than 100 lbs.

So it is with our salvation. No act of will can cause God to save us. No act of will can move God to do only that which God alone can do. God must choose to save me. God is the cause, my salvation is the effect.

You attempt to make human will the cause and the effect to be that God is moved to save the human that wills God to save.

 

[kyredneck]

So you are saying there is unconditional election

Absolutely!

 

[Silverhair]

Prior to salvation, what freedom of the will is available?

Are not all enslaved to the bondage of the flesh and the desires of it?

Are you also a subscriber to the unbiblical prevenient Grace thinking?

Not sure if I should listen to you or God? After some serious thought I will go with God.

What does God say
Mat_6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you
Luk 11:9 "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
Luk 11:10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Act 17:27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

Now you will not like it but if God says we can do it then that settles it, well that is unless it is the god you seem to follow. He just says things but they really do not mean what they seem to mean. My question for you is how can you trust anything that your god says?

Of course I trust in Gods' Prevenient Grace, don't you? Your the one that holds to irresistible grace are you not?

You just go on trusting in your man make religion and I will just trust in God.

 

[Marooncat79]

Now how do we get Van and MB going at it again?

it’s truly hard to tell who knows the least about what they are talking about

BUT, it is entertaining