The Willingness of men

[MB]

David told his son Solomon;
1Ch_28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

1Ch_28:21 And, behold, the courses of the priests and the Levites, even they shall be with thee for all the service of the house of God: and there shall be with thee for all manner of workmanship every willing skilful man

1Ch_29:5 The gold for things of gold, and the silver for things of silver, and for all manner of work to be made by the hands of artificers. And who then is willing to consecrate his service this day unto the LORD?an, for any manner of service: also the princes and all the people will be wholly at thy commandment

Psa_110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

It blows me away how many men were willing in the Bible yet we are told by some that there is none willing.
It's also amazing how many men that have seeked God. When we are told by the same people who tell us we have no will that man does not seek God.. Do these people really know what scripture says?

MB

 

[AustinC]

David told his son Solomon;
1Ch_28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

1Ch_28:21 And, behold, the courses of the priests and the Levites, even they shall be with thee for all the service of the house of God: and there shall be with thee for all manner of workmanship every willing skilful man

1Ch_29:5 The gold for things of gold, and the silver for things of silver, and for all manner of work to be made by the hands of artificers. And who then is willing to consecrate his service this day unto the LORD?an, for any manner of service: also the princes and all the people will be wholly at thy commandment

Psa_110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

It blows me away how many men were willing in the Bible yet we are told by some that there is none willing.
It's also amazing how many men that have seeked God. When we are told by the same people who tell us we have no will that man does not seek God.. Do these people really know what scripture says?

MB

Was Israel chosen by God? Was Solomon chosen by God to be the King of Israel?

MB, it is amazing how little you understand about God's Sovereign election starting with Adam and Eve, then moving into the various Covenants God made with specific people. If you understood, you would not be so perplexed.

 

[Silverhair]

Was Israel chosen by God? Was Solomon chosen by God to be the King of Israel?

MB, it is amazing how little you understand about God's Sovereign election starting with Adam and Eve, then moving into the various Covenants God made with specific people. If you understood, you would not be so perplexed.

Is this the same sovereign election that results in billions of people being damned to hell for no other reason than He decided to do it. Your theology has many serious problems that you refuse to acknowledge or just choose to ignore. Oh my mistake you can't do that as everything you do has been predetermined for you to think and do.

 

[Silverhair]

Since we always hear that we do not understand your view of sovereignty perhaps one of you enlightened calvinists could lay it out for us. I do not want a list of verses that you think support you just your explanation of what it is from your perspective. While your at it why not throw in free will for good measure.

 

[AustinC]

Is this the same sovereign election that results in billions of people being damned to hell for no other reason than He decided to do it.Your theology has many serious problems that you refuse to acknowledge or just choose to ignore. Oh my mistake you can't do that as everything you do has been predetermined for you to think and do.

I highlighted the statement where you blaspheme God.

You declare in that statement that humans are entirely holy and righteous and God unjustly damns people to hell.

You would have God be a silent and dead God who lets humans do whatever they felt was right in their own eyes and ultimately save themselves by their rational choice in picking YHWH rather than some other god.

So...let me correct you.

This is the same God who chose to graciously and mercifully ransom a remnant of sinners, despite their God damning will and rebellious God hating spirit. He chose to take their dead by law person and have them die with Christ and be raised to new life in Christ. He showed great mercy when we deserved great wrath and eternal damnation. This is the God who was not obligated to save even one human. He could have treated us like he treats Satan and the demons...and He would be entirely just to do so.

But for reasons known only to God, He chose a remnant out of godless humanity to ransom.

But you...you think humans are a self-righteous group who God should view as something amazing to behold and should save everyone who is brilliant enough to choose the right deity.

Silverhair, you have blasphemed the Almighty God and utterly disrespected His holy character. I call you to repent because you speak the words of the devil.

 

[Silverhair]

I highlighted the statement where you blaspheme God.

You declare in that statement that humans are entirely holy and righteous and God unjustly damns people to hell.

You would have God be a silent and dead God who lets humans do whatever they felt was right in their own eyes and ultimately save themselves by their rational choice in picking YHWH rather than some other god.

So...let me correct you.

This is the same God who chose to graciously and mercifully ransom a remnant of sinners, despite their God damning will and rebellious God hating spirit. He chose to take their dead by law person and have them die with Christ and be raised to new life in Christ. He showed great mercy when we deserved great wrath and eternal damnation. This is the God who was not obligated to save even one human. He could have treated us like he treats Satan and the demons...and He would be entirely just to do so.

But for reasons known only to God, He chose a remnant out of godless humanity to ransom.

But you...you think humans are a self-righteous group who God should view as something amazing to behold and should save everyone who is brilliant enough to choose the right deity.

Silverhair, you have blasphemed the Almighty God and utterly disrespected His holy character. I call you to repent because you speak the words of the devil.

What is the matter Austin can you not answer a simple question or two. Do you find it necessary for you to jump on your "high horse" and thunder what you think is truth. Get over yourself.

Can you not answer the questions or are you afraid to do so as they would show just how empty your theology is.

If you think calvinism is true surely you would want to defend it.

 

[AustinC]

What is the matter Austin can you not answer a simple question or two. Do you find it necessary for you to jump on your "high horse" and thunder what you think is truth. Get over yourself.

Can you not answer the questions or are you afraid to do so as they would show just how empty your theology is.

If you think calvinism is true surely you would want to defend it.

You wrote:
"billions of people being damned to hell for no other reason than He decided to do it."

 

[Silverhair]

You wrote:
"billions of people being damned to hell for no other reason than He decided to do it."

Well isn't that what your calvinist theology demands? Your the ones that say He has to control every thought and action of every person so that would by your own words make that happen. So it turns out your the one that has God condemn billions of persons to hell for no other reason then that is what He decided to do. Remember your the one that has God only elect/save a select group and the rest have no chance all to be saved, in other words they are condemned. Can you not see that? It is not because of anything they do as it was all decided before time began.

Now I say that He is sovereign and because He is sovereign He can and does allow for man to have a free will so that man can chose to accept Christ Jesus as Lord or reject Him. So that means that those that are condemned are so because of their choice.

If you say that God would not allow man to have a free will so as to be able to make that choice then what does that say about your view of God. If you say that even with a free will that man would not choose God then what does that say about the many commands to seek God and the offers of salvation if you trust in Christ Jesus that are found in the bible.

Look at your theology with an open mind. I know that you are smart enough to see the errors in it if you are honest with yourself. Work through TULIP and see where it leads. It is not to a good end.

Austin I really believe that you love God and want to honor Him just as I do. Honestly if I thought that calvinism was correct then I would be a calvinist. But after looking at what that theology does to the character of God and the sacrifice the Christ made it is just not possible.

Where you see a God of all power I see a God that is Love. For me Gods' love is His greatest attribute. God draws people to Himself through His love not by compulsion.

 

[AustinC]

Well isn't that what your calvinist theology demands? Your the ones that say He has to control every thought and action of every person so that would by your own words make that happen. So it turns out your the one that has God condemn billions of persons to hell for no other reason then that is what He decided to do. Remember your the one that has God only elect/save a select group and the rest have no chance all to be saved, in other words they are condemned. Can you not see that? It is not because of anything they do as it was all decided before time began.

Now I say that He is sovereign and because He is sovereign He can and does allow for man to have a free will so that man can chose to accept Christ Jesus as Lord or reject Him. So that means that those that are condemned are so because of their choice.

If you say that God would not allow man to have a free will so as to be able to make that choice then what does that say about your view of God. If you say that even with a free will that man would not choose God then what does that say about the many commands to seek God and the offers of salvation if you trust in Christ Jesus that are found in the bible.

Look at your theology with an open mind. I know that you are smart enough to see the errors in it if you are honest with yourself. Work through TULIP and see where it leads. It is not to a good end.

Austin I really believe that you love God and want to honor Him just as I do. Honestly if I thought that calvinism was correct then I would be a calvinist. But after looking at what that theology does to the character of God and the sacrifice the Christ made it is just not possible.

Where you see a God of all power I see a God that is Love. For me Gods' love is His greatest attribute. God draws people to Himself through His love not by compulsion.

You wrote:
"billions of people being damned to hell for no other reason than He decided to do it."

I highlighted the statement where you blaspheme God.

You declare in that statement that humans are entirely holy and righteous and God unjustly damns people to hell.

You would have God be a silent and dead God who lets humans do whatever they felt was right in their own eyes and ultimately save themselves by their rational choice in picking YHWH rather than some other god.

So...let me correct you.

This is the same God who chose to graciously and mercifully ransom a remnant of sinners, despite their God damning will and rebellious God hating spirit. He chose to take their dead by law person and have them die with Christ and be raised to new life in Christ. He showed great mercy when we deserved great wrath and eternal damnation. This is the God who was not obligated to save even one human. He could have treated us like he treats Satan and the demons...and He would be entirely just to do so.

But for reasons known only to God, He chose a remnant out of godless humanity to ransom.

But you...you think humans are a self-righteous group who God should view as something amazing to behold and should save everyone who is brilliant enough to choose the right deity.

Silverhair, you have blasphemed the Almighty God and utterly disrespected His holy character. I call you to repent because you speak the words of the devil.

I have answered.

You have refused to repent of your comment, which blasphemes God.

I have nothing to say to one who openly despises God.

 

[MB]

Well isn't that what your calvinist theology demands? Your the ones that say He has to control every thought and action of every person so that would by your own words make that happen. So it turns out your the one that has God condemn billions of persons to hell for no other reason then that is what He decided to do. Remember your the one that has God only elect/save a select group and the rest have no chance all to be saved, in other words they are condemned. Can you not see that? It is not because of anything they do as it was all decided before time began.

Now I say that He is sovereign and because He is sovereign He can and does allow for man to have a free will so that man can chose to accept Christ Jesus as Lord or reject Him. So that means that those that are condemned are so because of their choice.

If you say that God would not allow man to have a free will so as to be able to make that choice then what does that say about your view of God. If you say that even with a free will that man would not choose God then what does that say about the many commands to seek God and the offers of salvation if you trust in Christ Jesus that are found in the bible.

Look at your theology with an open mind. I know that you are smart enough to see the errors in it if you are honest with yourself. Work through TULIP and see where it leads. It is not to a good end.

Austin I really believe that you love God and want to honor Him just as I do. Honestly if I thought that calvinism was correct then I would be a calvinist. But after looking at what that theology does to the character of God and the sacrifice the Christ made it is just not possible.

Where you see a God of all power I see a God that is Love. For me Gods' love is His greatest attribute. God draws people to Himself through His love not by compulsion.

It is what Calvinist say all the time the blaspheme is on them.
MB

 

[AustinC]

It is what Calvinist say all the time the blaspheme is on them.
MB

MB, When do you think you will give up your myth, since no Calvinist has ever said what Silverhair has said.

Silverhair declares in his statement that humans are entirely holy and righteous and God unjustly damns people to hell.

You would have God be a silent and dead God who lets humans do whatever they felt was right in their own eyes and ultimately save themselves by their rational choice in picking YHWH rather than some other god.

So...let me correct you.

This is the same God who chose to graciously and mercifully ransom a remnant of sinners, despite their God damning will and rebellious God hating spirit. He chose to take their dead by law person and have them die with Christ and be raised to new life in Christ. He showed great mercy when we deserved great wrath and eternal damnation. This is the God who was not obligated to save even one human. He could have treated us like he treats Satan and the demons...and He would be entirely just to do so.

But for reasons known only to God, He chose a remnant out of godless humanity to ransom.

But you...you think humans are a self-righteous group who God should view as something amazing to behold and should save everyone who is brilliant enough to choose the right deity.

 

[Silverhair]

MB, When do you think you will give up your myth, since no Calvinist has ever said what Silverhair has said.

Silverhair declares in his statement that humans are entirely holy and righteous and God unjustly damns people to hell.

You would have God be a silent and dead God who lets humans do whatever they felt was right in their own eyes and ultimately save themselves by their rational choice in picking YHWH rather than some other god.

So...let me correct you.

This is the same God who chose to graciously and mercifully ransom a remnant of sinners, despite their God damning will and rebellious God hating spirit. He chose to take their dead by law person and have them die with Christ and be raised to new life in Christ. He showed great mercy when we deserved great wrath and eternal damnation. This is the God who was not obligated to save even one human. He could have treated us like he treats Satan and the demons...and He would be entirely just to do so.

But for reasons known only to God, He chose a remnant out of godless humanity to ransom.

But you...you think humans are a self-righteous group who God should view as something amazing to behold and should save everyone who is brilliant enough to choose the right deity.

Austin since you have accused me of saying this "Silverhair declares in his statement that humans are entirely holy and righteous and God unjustly damns people to hell."
Then show me where I have said it.


What I said is
"Well isn't that what your calvinist theology demands? Your the ones that say He has to control every thought and action of every person so that would by your own words make that happen. So it turns out your the one that has God condemn billions of persons to hell for no other reason then that is what He decided to do. Remember your the one that has God only elect/save a select group and the rest have no chance all to be saved, in other words they are condemned. Can you not see that? It is not because of anything they do as it was all decided before time began."

"God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass .." LBCF CHAPTER 3; OF GOD’S DECREE

"Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, He is pleased in His appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call,.." CHAPTER 10; OF EFFECTUAL CALLING Para 1

"Others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit,12 yet not being effectually drawn by the Father, they neither will nor can truly come to Christ, and therefore cannot be saved:.." CHAPTER 10; OF EFFECTUAL CALLING Para 4

Are you so blind that you can not see what is right in front of you, If God has decreed all things does that not mean all things. If God has selected a small group to be saved and all others have no chance to be saved then that means they are condemned to hell for no other reason than He chose to do so. And that is what your LBCF says that He does.

When I said you were smart enough to see the truth I was mistaken. I was just giving you credit for a level of intelligence that you obviously do not possess.

 

[AustinC]

Austin since you have accused me of saying this "Silverhair declares in his statement that humans are entirely holy and righteous and God unjustly damns people to hell."
Then show me where I have said it.


What I said is
"Well isn't that what your calvinist theology demands? Your the ones that say He has to control every thought and action of every person so that would by your own words make that happen. So it turns out your the one that has God condemn billions of persons to hell for no other reason then that is what He decided to do. Remember your the one that has God only elect/save a select group and the rest have no chance all to be saved, in other words they are condemned. Can you not see that? It is not because of anything they do as it was all decided before time began."

"God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass .." LBCF CHAPTER 3; OF GOD’S DECREE

"Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, He is pleased in His appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call,.." CHAPTER 10; OF EFFECTUAL CALLING Para 1

"Others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit,12 yet not being effectually drawn by the Father, they neither will nor can truly come to Christ, and therefore cannot be saved:.." CHAPTER 10; OF EFFECTUAL CALLING Para 4

Are you so blind that you can not see what is right in front of you, If God has decreed all things does that not mean all things. If God has selected a small group to be saved and all others have no chance to be saved then that means they are condemned to hell for no other reason than He chose to do so. And that is what your LBCF says that He does.

When I said you were smart enough to see the truth I was mistaken. I was just giving you credit for a level of intelligence that you obviously do not possess.

You wrote:
"billions of people being damned to hell for no other reason than He decided to do it."

The implication is as clear as a blue sky.

You made your statement. You blasphemed the Holy God and lifted up humans.

I expect you to repent.

 

[Brightfame52]

mb

It blows me away how many men were willing in the Bible yet we are told by some that there is none willing.

They become willing after they are recipients of a New Heart. Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

 

[AustinC]

mb



They become willing after they are recipients of a New Heart. Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

MB admitted that he heard the Word of God and then responded. He doesn't seem to understand that his experience is precisely what any Calvinist/Reformed Christian recognizes as God's Sovereign election. MB's own words show his contempt is misplaced due to his own misunderstanding.

 

[Silverhair]

You wrote:
"billions of people being damned to hell for no other reason than He decided to do it."

The implication is as clear as a blue sky.

You made your statement. You blasphemed the Holy God and lifted up humans.

I expect you to repent.

Are you so stuck in your calvinism that you can not read. Get your head out of the sand. Look at what the LBCF says and then tell me if your false theology has God send billions to hell. My God would not do that but yours does. You need to learn to read but that seems to be beyond you.

Why should I repent for showing you what your theology says. You ignoring the problem with calvinism will not make it go away.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Are you so stuck in your calvinism that you can not read. Get your head out of the sand. Look at what the LBCF says and then tell me if your false theology has God send billions to hell. My God would not do that but yours does. You need to learn to read but that seems to be beyond you.

Why should I repent for showing you what your theology says. You ignoring the problem with Calvinism will not make it go away.

I find this post fascinating. Are you saying that God has not sent billions to hell? If so, why are you accusing Calvinism of doing so if in fact they are not there? If not, and indeed the billions are languishing there, if (God forbid!) Arminianism is true, then it is your theology that has condemned all those billions, not mine and not @AustinC's, since you have abolished Irresistible Grace..

But in fact, whether Calvinism or Arminianism is true, there is a vast crowd, so huge that no one can count it, destined for heaven (Revelation 7:9). Would you care to explain how the crowd gets bigger if Arminianism is correct?

 

[AustinC]

Silverhair wrote:
"billions of people being damned to hell for no other reason than He decided to do it."

I explained to him his blasphemy and presented the truth to him:

So...let me correct you.

This is the same God who chose to graciously and mercifully ransom a remnant of sinners, despite their God damning will and rebellious God hating spirit. He chose to take their dead by law person and have them die with Christ and be raised to new life in Christ. He showed great mercy when we deserved great wrath and eternal damnation. This is the God who was not obligated to save even one human. He could have treated us like he treats Satan and the demons...and He would be entirely just to do so.

But for reasons known only to God, He chose a remnant out of godless humanity to ransom.

But you...you think humans are a self-righteous group who God should view as something amazing to behold and should save everyone who is brilliant enough to choose the right deity.

Silverhair attempts to change the subject away from what he wrote and his blasphemous accusation of God.

 

[AustinC]

Let's see the natural will of man:

Romans 1:18,21-23, 28-31For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

Romans 3:10-18 As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Romans 7:18-20 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

Romans 8:6-8 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 9:8,14-16,27-28 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.”

Romans 11:6-8 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.”

Much more can be shared, yet Paul's letter to the Romans is enough to show that humans, in their flesh, will never bend their knee to God's Sovereign Lordship.

 

[Silverhair]

I find this post fascinating. Are you saying that God has not sent billions to hell? If so, why are you accusing Calvinism of doing so if in fact they are not there? If not, and indeed the billions are languishing there, if (God forbid!) Arminianism is true, then it is your theology that has condemned all those billions, not mine and not @AustinC's, since you have abolished Irresistible Grace..

But in fact, whether Calvinism or Arminianism is true, there is a vast crowd, so huge that no one can count it, destined for heaven (Revelation 7:9). Would you care to explain how the crowd gets bigger if Arminianism is correct?

Hi martin please read the post.
What I said is
"Well isn't that what your calvinist theology demands? Your the ones that say He has to control every thought and action of every person so that would by your own words make that happen. So it turns out your the one that has God condemn billions of persons to hell for no other reason then that is what He decided to do. Remember your the one that has God only elect/save a select group and the rest have no chance all to be saved, in other words they are condemned. Can you not see that? It is not because of anything they do as it was all decided before time began."

Please explain how I could abolish "irresistible grace" since there is no such thing. That is just something that calvinists made up so they could prop up a bad theology.

In case you missed it:

"God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass .." LBCF CHAPTER 3; OF GOD’S DECREE

"Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, He is pleased in His appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call,.." CHAPTER 10; OF EFFECTUAL CALLING Para 1

"Others not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may have some common operations of the Spirit,12 yet not being effectually drawn by the Father, they neither will nor can truly come to Christ, and therefore cannot be saved:.." CHAPTER 10; OF EFFECTUAL CALLING Para 4

Are you so blind that you can not see what is right in front of you, If God has decreed all things does that not mean all things. If God has selected a small group to be saved and all others have no chance to be saved then that means they are condemned to hell for no other reason than He chose to do so. And that is what your LBCF says that He does.

That is what your theology requires, well that is unless you say you don't agree with the LBCF in which case I would have to ask what you do believe. And as I said those that are in hell are there because they chose to reject Christ Jesus of their own God given free will.

So those people are in hell by choice not by compulsion, that is a big big difference. God did not elect a select group to save before creation. Now I know that you will disagree and that's fine we can talk about that but what you cannot deny is what the LBCF says as I have highlighted above. It is hard to deny that the text says "Others not elected...therefore cannot be saved" Now since you calvinists say only the elect will be saved that means that all the others are condemned and remember this was before any of us were born.

So like it or not it is your theology that has God sending billions to hell just because He decided not to elect them which He could have done.