The Particular Mercy of God

[AustinC]

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
~ Romans 8:28-30

This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
~ Romans 9:8,10-13,15-16

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for “Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.” But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry.” Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, “I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”
~ Romans 10:17-20

“Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.”
~ Romans 11:3-8

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
~ 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
~ John 10:25-29

It is the Creator, God, who particularily determined who his promised children are. It is by His mercy that a person believes. It is by the grace of God that anyone believes. Nowhere do we see that it is by the will of man that a person believes. It is always by the merciful choice of God that a person believes.

 

[George Antonios]

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
~ Romans 8:28-30

This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

Being predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son, as the scriptures define the scriptures, means that we are predestinated to look like the physical image of the resurrection body of Jesus Christ, which is a blessing connected to salvation, not salvation itself (as God could have saved us without necessarily also promising us a Christ-like resurrection body).

 

[AustinC]

Being predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son, as the scriptures define the scriptures, means that we are predestinated to look like the physical image of the resurrection body of Jesus Christ, which is a blessing connected to salvation, not salvation itself (as God could have saved us without necessarily also promising us a Christ-like resurrection body).

WaitWhat!?
We're going to "look like the physical image of"...Jesus...after his resurrection? There will be billions of cloned Jesus' running around?

 

[George Antonios]

WaitWhat!?
We're going to "look like the physical image of"...Jesus...after his resurrection? There will be billions of cloned Jesus' running around?

This is a simplified table. The rest is in the video.

Php_3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I didn't say carbon-copy, just letting the scriptures speak.

 

[MB]

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
~ Romans 8:28-30

This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
~ Romans 9:8,10-13,15-16

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for “Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.” But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry.” Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, “I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.”
~ Romans 10:17-20

“Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace. What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.”
~ Romans 11:3-8

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the first fruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
~ 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
~ John 10:25-29

It is the Creator, God, who particularily determined who his promised children are. It is by His mercy that a person believes. It is by the grace of God that anyone believes. Nowhere do we see that it is by the will of man that a person believes. It is always by the merciful choice of God that a person believes
.

If God showed particular mercy, then God would be partial to some.This is preference or, respect of some and God is not a respecter of men. All of your comments here is false.
MB

 

[37818]

If God showed particular mercy, then God would be partial to some.This is preference or, respect of some and God is not a respecter of men. All of your comments here is false.
MB

Romans 9:12-14, "It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? . . ."

 

[George Antonios]

Romans 9:12-14, "It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? . . ."

Right, and as the Lord said: It is written again (Mt.4:7):

Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

So we must take all the verses in.

God's choice of Esau:

1) Esau never did serve Jacob, in fact, basically the opposite happened
2) The choice was not unto salvation but unto the Messianic line blessing
3) Paul himself, I say, Paul himself, gives the criterion at the end of his chapter, that it was faith (Ro.9:30).
God foreknew the faith of Jacob.

Paul points out to the Jews that God reckons the Messianic line apart from works, then he takes that an applies it to NT salvation to prove that God does indeed reckon a man righteous and chooses him apart from works.

Simple.

 

[Silverhair]

View attachment 5311

This is a simplified table. The rest is in the video.

Php_3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I didn't say carbon-copy, just letting the scriptures speak.

George I do not agree with Austin on many things but on this one I do. When we are conformed to the image of Christ Jesus it will be a spiritual image not a physical one. While we are on earth we are to strive to be more and more Christlike does that mean we are all changing our appearance, no.
God is Spirit not physical {Joh_4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."}

 

[ad finitum]

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
~ Romans 8:28-30

So if God foreknew that Lucifer would rebel, and so predestined him for the lake of fire... Oh, wait a minute. Lucifer rebelled of his own free will, yet was foreknown and predestined.

Likewise for human beings, being foreknown and predestined does not mean they don't have free will. So any time someone tries to imply that humans can't use free will to seek God, they can be safely ignored.

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? -- Matthew 7:7-11​

 

[MB]

So if God foreknew that Lucifer would rebel, and so predestined him for the lake of fire... Oh, wait a minute. Lucifer rebelled of his own free will, yet was foreknown and predestined.

Likewise for human beings, being foreknown and predestined does not mean they don't have free will. So any time someone tries to imply that humans can't use free will to seek God, they can be safely ignored.

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? -- Matthew 7:7-11​

George I do not agree with Austin on many things but on this one I do. When we are conformed to the image of Christ Jesus it will be a spiritual image not a physical one. While we are on earth we are to strive to be more and more Christlike does that mean we are all changing our appearance, no.
God is Spirit not physical {Joh_4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." }

I believe we will be like Christ after the resurrection. Both physical and spiritual If not what would be the reason for a resurrection of the body? Of course we all worship Him in spirit.
MB

 

[AustinC]

View attachment 5311

This is a simplified table. The rest is in the video.

Php_3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I didn't say carbon-copy, just letting the scriptures speak.

Two things:
1) Write what you think. I'm not watching your 30+ minute you-tube rambling to try figure out what you can write in one short paragraph.
2) Plucking verses without context won't win an debate. Show the context around the verses, because the two verses you picked are not teaching anything about God's particular redemption. If you want scripture to truly speak, then show the full context. Otherwise we know our adversary quotes verses out of context all the time.

 

[AustinC]

If God showed particular mercy, then God would be partial to some.This is preference or, respect of some and God is not a respecter of men. All of your comments here is false.
MB

You realize that Paul destroys your assertion in Romans 9. Why make a comment that the Bible destroys?

Second, you misunderstand the term "God is not a respecter of men." This means God is not impressed with any human being bases upon their self-righteousness. This means that God's choice is a mystery to us. Even the angels are perplexed by God's mercy to any human. Therefore, your complaints hold no merit.

 

[MB]

Two things:
1) Write what you think. I'm not watching your 30+ minute you-tube rambling to try figure out what you can write in one short paragraph.
2) Plucking verses without context won't win an debate. Show the context around the verses, because the two verses you picked are not teaching anything about God's particular redemption. If you want scripture to truly speak, then show the full context. Otherwise we know our adversary quotes verses out of context all the time.

You like the pharisee's accuse others of what you do your self.
MB

 

[MB]

You realize that Paul destroys your assertion in Romans 9. Why make a comment that the Bible destroys?

Second, you misunderstand the term "God is not a respecter of men." This means God is not impressed with any human being bases upon their self-righteousness. This means that God's choice is a mystery to us. Even the angels are perplexed by God's mercy to any human. Therefore, your complaints hold no merit.

God didn't do that you just accuse Him of it.
MB

 

[AustinC]

So if God foreknew that Lucifer would rebel, and so predestined him for the lake of fire... Oh, wait a minute. Lucifer rebelled of his own free will, yet was foreknown and predestined.

Likewise for human beings, being foreknown and predestined does not mean they don't have free will. So any time someone tries to imply that humans can't use free will to seek God, they can be safely ignored.

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? -- Matthew 7:7-11​

You speculate about Satan and God's ordination of his rebellion.

Matthew 7 is the latter part of the sermon on the mount, addressed to the covenant people of Israel. Every covenant child of God has the capacity to go into the throne room of God and seek his audience.

Notice the authority of the King:

Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

 

[AustinC]

You like the pharisee's accuse others of what you do your self.
MB

This is a diversion away from the topic. Stay on topic, MB

 

[AustinC]

God didn't do that you just accuse Him of it.
MB

LOL, at this point you just are ignoring Romans 9

 

[MB]

You speculate about Satan and God's ordination of his rebellion.

Matthew 7 is the latter part of the sermon on the mount, addressed to the covenant people of Israel. Every covenant child of God has the capacity to go into the throne room of God and seek his audience.

Notice the authority of the King:

Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

So if God foreknew that Lucifer would rebel, and so predestined him for the lake of fire... Oh, wait a minute. Lucifer rebelled of his own free will, yet was foreknown and predestined.

Likewise for human beings, being foreknown and predestined does not mean they don't have free will. So any time someone tries to imply that humans can't use free will to seek God, they can be safely ignored.

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? -- Matthew 7:7-11​

I agree so the one who keeps telling us we don't know what we are talking about should be ignored. I'm all for it.
MB

 

[George Antonios]

George I do not agree with Austin on many things but on this one I do. When we are conformed to the image of Christ Jesus it will be a spiritual image not a physical one. While we are on earth we are to strive to be more and more Christlike does that mean we are all changing our appearance, no.
God is Spirit not physical {Joh_4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."}

Well that's good preaching and I amen it, but that's not what Paul is talking about there.
Please take the time to watch the video if you can. Thanks.

 

[Iconoclast]

In light of many falsehoods being offered, I thought a truth antidote needed to be inserted here!

In the decree of election, God doth not fix conditions of eternal life, and choose such as will fulfil them, but he sets apart particular persons to be infallibly made partakers of eternal salvation.

1. Particular persons, as hath been just stated, have their names written in the book of life, Luke 10:20; Rev 13:8; Rev 20:12; Rev 21:27; Isa 4:3, etc.

2. Some men are represented as particularly and personally chosen to everlasting life, Eph 1:4-6; Matt 20:16; Matt 22:14; John 10:3,26-27; John 13:18; John 17:9; John 6:37; Acts 13:48; Acts 18:10; Rom 8:28-30; Rom 9:13,23; Rom 11:5,7; 1 Thess 1:4; 1 Thess 5:9; 2Thess 2:13; 1 Pet 1:2; 1 Pet 2:9; 2 Tim 1:9; 2 Tim 2:10.

3. The infallible and unalterable connection between election, redemption, and eternal salvation, necessarily requires that those very persons, who are actually saved, must have been elected to obtain that salvation, Ps 33:11; Isa 14:24,27; Isa 46:10; Rom 8:28-39; Rom 9:11- 13,23; John 10:15-16,27-29. God's election of these particular persons is absolute, proceeding wholly and only from his own infinitely wise and sovereign will and good pleasure; and altogether independent on their foreseen faith or good works.


1. The Scripture represents his election of them as merely depending on his own will, and as purposed in himself, Luke 12:32; Luke 10:21; Matt 11:25-26; Rom 9:11-13,16,18; Rom 11:5-6; Eph 1:5,9,11; Deut 7:8; Deut 9:4; Deut 10:15; 2 Tim 1:9.

2. God, who chooses them, is absolutely sovereign in his disposal of his favours, Gen 6:5; Gen 8:21; Dan 4:35; Isa 57:17-18; Isa 43:24-25; Rom 5:20- 21; Rom 9:15-16,18,20-21; Ps 115:3; Ps 135:6; Job 33:13.

3. He could foresee no moral goodness in fallen and corrupted men, as moving Him to elect them to everlasting happiness, Gen 6:5; Gen 8:21; Ps 5:9-10; Ps 14:1-4; Isa 59:1-15; Rom 1:21-32; Rom 3:10-19,23; Rom 5:12; Rom 8:7-8; Titus 3:3; Jer 13:23; Jer 17:9; Eph 2:1-3; Eph 4:17- 19; Job 14:4; Job 15:14,16; Matt 15:19.

4. No true faith or holy obedience, but what God himself works in them, can be found in any man, Phil 1:29; Phil 2:13; Eph 2:4-10; 2 Thess 1:11; James 1:17; 1 Cor 4:7; 2 Cor 3:5; Isa 26:12; Ps 57:2. Now God's own work in time can never be the condition of his choosing us before time to eternal life.

5. Our faith and holiness are the fruits of God's election of us; and hence can never be the cause or condition of it, Acts 13:48; 1 Thess 1:4-5; 2 Thess 2:13; John 8:47; John 10:26-27; Eph 1:4; 1 Pet 1:2.

6. Our faith and holiness are properly parts of our salvation largely taken, and evidences that we are in the state and begun possession of it. And hence they are not so much as proper conditions of salvation, but means of receiving or improving it, and of preparing for the full enjoyment of it, Titus 3:5-7; Rom 7:4; Rom 6:14. How absurd then to suppose them conditions of God's electing us to that salvation!

7. If God's election of men to everlasting life depended on his foresight of their faith and good works, his redeeming love could be no such distinguished favour as the Scripture represents it, John 3:16; 1 John 3:1; 1 John 4:9-10,19; Jer 3:19; Jer 31:3; Job 35:7; Job 41:11; Deut 10:11; 1 Cor 1:29; 1 Cor 4:7; Eph 1:6; Eph 2:7; Rom 9:15-16,18; Rom 5:8,20-21.

8. So far are our good works from being the conditions upon which God elected us to everlasting life, that the making them procuring causes of our salvation is represented as altogether eversive of the grace of God therein manifested, Rom 4:4; Rom 11:6; Rom 9:16; Gal 2:21; Gal 5:2,4.

Men are chosen by God to everlasting life in Jesus Christ, as their representing Head.

1. Our election is expressly represented as in him, as our new covenant Head, and the great mean of the execution of that decree, Eph 1:4; Eph 3:11; 2 Tim 1:9; Titus 1:2.

2. The effects of our election are all enjoyed in Christ—as redemption, Eph 1:7; Col 1:14; 1 Cor 1:30; Rom 3:24-25;—effectual calling, Phil 3:14;— justification, Isa 45:24-25; 1 Cor 1:30; 2 Cor 5:21.—adoption; Gal 3:26;—regeneration and sanctification, Eph 2:10; 1 Cor 1:2; Acts 26:18; 1 Cor 1:30.—preservation in grace, Jude 1; Col 3:3; John 14:19; John 10:28; John 15:5,7,—spiritual comfort, John 14:18; 2 Cor 1:5; 2 Thess 2:16-17;—and glorification, Rom 8:15-18; Eph 2:6; Isa 45:17,25; Isa 60:19; Col 3:3-4.

3. Without supposing our election to everlasting life in Christ as our Head, God's putting our stock of holiness and happiness in Adam, as our covenant-head, could not be so clearly vindicated, Rom 5:12-21; 1 Cor 15:21-22.—Nor does it appear, how we could have been recovered, quickened, justified, or sanctified by him, if we had not been chosen in him, Rom 3:10-26; John 5:25-26; Acts 3:15,26; Rom 8:1-2; 1 John 5:12; John 14:19; Col 1:19; Col 2:9-10,13; Eph 2:10; Eph 3:17,19; Heb 2:12-16; 1 Cor 6:17; Titus 3:5.—

But, though we were chosen in Christ as our Head, yet his mediatorial office and work are not the cause of our election, but only the cause of that salvation which we were chosen to obtain.


1. It hath been proved, that our election proceeds from the mere sovereign will of God.—It was of his mere free favour, that any men were elected to everlasting life. It was of his mere good pleasure, that such particular persons, and not others, were elected, Matt 11:25-26 Luke 12:32; Rom 9:11-23; 1 Cor 4:7; 1 Cor 1:25-30.

2. While Christ himself is, in God's electing purpose, chosen as our Head, his mediation is appointed in it, as the mean of executing it, and as the purchasing, procuring, and applying cause of our salvation therein decreed, Isa 42:1-7; Isa 49:1-6; 1 Pet 1:18-21; John 3:16-18; 1 John 3:5,8; 1 John 4:9-10.

3. Christ died for men considered as sinful in themselves, but loved of God, and elected to everlasting life,—that they might obtain it in a way consistent with his honour, Matt 1:21; John 10:10,14-15; John 15:13; Eph 5:2,23,25; Isa 49:3; Isa 42:21.

Of God, the Author, Object, and End of All Religion;
John Brown