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Featured Opposing Presuppositions.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Oct 19, 2021.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Opposing presuppositions are more than their opposing view points. Unless both sides of two distinct view points know their own presuppositions, neither can truely explain their own point of view. Some presuppositions are extra Biblical. The problem with some being extra Biblical is when such a presupposion is not actually true.
     
    #1 37818, Oct 19, 2021
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  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    You must of course be writing about being born sinners. You take a verse from the Psalms about a baby sinning and form the opinion it was a born sinner. The verse never says the Baby was sinning before it's birth but you still claim that babies are born sinners.
    MB
     
    #2 MB, Oct 28, 2021
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    This issue presuppositions is not limited to only one disagreement.

    How did Adam and Eve die per Genesis 2:17? What has Genesis 3:22 have to do with it and Psalms 58:3?
     
    #3 37818, Oct 28, 2021
  4. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Tell me how it is that Psalm 58:3 supports babies being born sinners. It says absolutely nothing about being born sinners.There is no proof of that at all.
    MB
     
    #4 MB, Oct 28, 2021
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The Psalms 58:3 explicitly states, "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies."
     
    #5 37818, Oct 28, 2021
  6. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Notice that it is after the birth this claim was made. So how does this make the child a born sinner since it supposedly sinned after birth. The word estranged does not mean the Child sinned before birth. When a child is born they have no knowledge of anything out side of the womb.Estranged means with drawn.
    You still have no explanation do you about it being a born sinner.Being a born sinner means they would have to sin while in the womb
    MB
     
    #6 MB, Oct 28, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Being "wicked" before being born.
     
    #7 37818, Oct 28, 2021
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  8. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Psa 58:3 The wickedH7563 are estrangedH2114 from the womb:H4480 H7358 they go astrayH8582 as soon as they be born,H4480 H990 speakingH1696 lies.H3577.
    What wrong do premature babes do while in the womb? The verse still says from the womb it does not say in the womb.
    Your theory doesn't hold water.
    MB
     
    #8 MB, Oct 28, 2021
  9. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You might want to read your Bible again.
     
    #9 Reformed1689, Oct 28, 2021
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  10. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    So should you
    MB
     
    #10 MB, Oct 28, 2021
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So you really not only seem to deny Psalms 58:3 you would also then beny Romans 3:10 where it says "none."
    "There is none righteous, no, not one: . . ." None means none.
     
    #11 37818, Oct 28, 2021
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  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    ,@MB we have a deferent set of presuppositions. By not answering my questions regarding Genesis 2:17 and Genesis 3;22, how am I to understand how we differ on those texts. My base presuppsition God's word is true.
     
    #12 37818, Oct 28, 2021
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @MB,
    BTW, I believe little children who die as little children go to Heaven. Not because they are sinless, but because Christ died for them.
     
    #13 37818, Oct 28, 2021
  14. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die
    .I didn't see any connection. Neither speaks about being a born sinner. God's word is true. Your presuppositions are wrong
    This has nothing to do with Psalm 58:3 or Gen 3:22 either.
    MB
     
    #14 MB, Oct 28, 2021
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Well, denying how I understand it does not explain how you understand, Genesis 2:17, Genesis 3:22 or Psalms 58:3. It would seem we agree God's word is true. But at best that is far as it goes. What about "none" in Romans 3:10?
     
    #15 37818, Oct 28, 2021
  16. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    MB, do you believe the Scriptures when it says before the twins were born and had done nothing good or bad that God loved Jacob and hated Esau?
     
    #16 RipponRedeaux, Oct 28, 2021
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  17. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I believe they go to heaven because they are not accountable for there sins. In fact I do not believe the Lord holds any child under 12 responsible or old enough to understand the Law..
    MB
     
    #17 MB, Oct 28, 2021
  18. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Well, well, you harbor extra-biblical notions MB.
     
    #18 RipponRedeaux, Oct 28, 2021
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  19. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    The Bible says plainly that we are born in sin. It does not say we are born sinners even in the verses you presented. You have to read scripture very carefully and not assume anything is true until you've studied it carefully. This is the same mistake that Calvinist make
    MB
     
    #19 MB, Oct 28, 2021
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Actually that is the common mistranslation of Romans 9:11. MLV, ". . . for* the children were not yet born, nor had practiced anything good or evil, . . ."
     
    #20 37818, Oct 28, 2021
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