Challenging Common Translation Choices

[Van]

At any point in time, the active body of Christ is using the common translations (English in our case) of the day. We are familiar with the renderings, and if a translation differs we do not "like" it. For example, if you memorized verses in the KJV, you might not want to go with a version that differs.

Another problem is that a dismissive mantra might arise such as the HCSB is "quirky."

But, if you take courses, formal or informal, that teach Bible Study methods, you will find yourself as why this choice rather than that choice? Sometimes the answer is the versions are based on differing texts, CT, MT or TR. But even when looking at the verse same underlying text, translations present very different ideas.

For example, let us look at Romans 10:17, certainly an important text.

ESV
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

CEV
No one can have faith without hearing the message about Christ.

NKJV
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

If we consider these renderings, is faith traveling to us (comes) or is the idea faith is based on or arises from something.

Or does "the word of Christ" refer to the words spoken by Christ rather than declarations made by others about Christ?

And how do we decide what to believe concerning this verse. Some posting on this Board say go with the ones you like or the ones using the most used rendering. Of course that is advocating fallacy.

 

[Reformed1689]

At any point in time, the active body of Christ is using the common translations (English in our case) of the day. We are familiar with the renderings, and if a translation differs we do not "like" it. For example, if you memorized verses in the KJV, you might not want to go with a version that differs.

Another problem is that a dismissive mantra might arise such as the HCSB is "quirky."

But, if you take courses, formal or informal, that teach Bible Study methods, you will find yourself as why this choice rather than that choice? Sometimes the answer is the versions are based on differing texts, CT, MT or TR. But even when looking at the verse same underlying text, translations present very different ideas.

For example, let us look at Romans 10:17, certainly an important text.

ESV
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

CEV
No one can have faith without hearing the message about Christ.

NKJV
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

If we consider these renderings, is faith traveling to us (comes) or is the idea faith is based on or arises from something.

Or does "the word of Christ" refer to the words spoken by Christ rather than declarations made by others about Christ?

And how do we decide what to believe concerning this verse. Some posting on this Board say go with the ones you like or the ones using the most used rendering. Of course that is advocating fallacy.

Or, the better approach would be to take the whole of Scripture and not single out a verse.

 

[Van]

Or, the better approach would be to take the whole of Scripture and not single out a verse.

The naysayers are out in force today, finding fault where none exists. Here it is claimed you must not study the bible a word at a time, or verse at a time, or passage at a time, or a book at a time, No siree Bob, you must study the whole Bible at one time. I kid you not...

 

[Reformed1689]

The naysayers are out in force today, finding fault where none exists. Here it is claimed you must not study the bible a word at a time, or verse at a time, or passage at a time, or a book at a time, No siree Bob, you must study the whole Bible at one time. I kid you not...

And here is the dishonesty of Van on display again who twists what people say into something they did not even come close to saying.

 

[Van]

And here is the dishonesty of Van on display again who twists what people say into something they did not even come close to saying.

Now the naysayer runs from his absurd view, and hurls another false charge. Go figure folks...

 

[Reformed1689]

Now the naysayer runs from his absurd view, and hurls another false charge. Go figure folks...

I'm not running from anything. You put forth something claiming that I said one thing and you are 100% wrong. What you said I said is not even close to what I said. Period. Treading on thin ice van, coming very close to the L word. Or perhaps you just don't have the capacity to understand? Which is it?

 

[Van]

Back to Romans 10:17, should we go with "so then" (NKJV) or "so faith" ESV or "no one" (CEV)? The Greek word means consequently or accordingly, or therefore. I like "accordingly" which forces the reader to look back and ask "according to what?"

 

[Van]

I'm not running from anything. You put forth something claiming that I said one thing and you are 100% wrong. What you said I said is not even close to what I said. Period. Treading on thin ice van, coming very close to the L word. Or perhaps you just don't have the capacity to understand? Which is it?

Here is what this naysayer said: "Or, the better approach would be to take the whole of Scripture and not single out a verse."

And here is my response: "Here it is claimed you must not study the bible a word at a time, or verse at a time, or passage at a time, or a book at a time, No siree Bob, you must study the whole Bible at one time. I kid you not...

 

[Reformed1689]

Here is what this naysayer said: "Or, the better approach would be to take the whole of Scripture and not single out a verse."

And here is my response: "Here it is claimed you must not study the bible a word at a time, or verse at a time, or passage at a time, or a book at a time, No siree Bob, you must study the whole Bible at one time. I kid you not...

Yep. See the difference? You said something I did not.

 

[Van]

Returning to topic:

Back to Romans 10:17, should we go with "so then" (NKJV) or "so faith" ESV or "no one" (CEV)? The Greek word means consequently or accordingly, or therefore. I like "accordingly" which forces the reader to look back and ask "according to what?"

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Returning to topic:

Back to Romans 10:17, should we go with "so then" (NKJV) or "so faith" ESV or "no one" (CEV)? The Greek word means consequently or accordingly, or therefore. I like "accordingly" which forces the reader to look back and ask "according to what?"

All these years on the BB has taught you nothing. You need to drop "deeply flawed" because you don't know the import of those words. The picayune examples you habitually give amount to nothing.
So then is perfectly fine, as is so faith.
Weymouth : Faith then...
NJB : But it is in this way that faith comes
MLB : Faith, then, results from
REB : So then faith

 

[Van]

Returning to topic:

Back to Romans 10:17, should we go with "so then" (NKJV) or "so faith" ESV or "no one" (CEV)? The Greek word means consequently or accordingly, or therefore. I like "accordingly" which forces the reader to look back and ask "according to what?"

The next words in most English translations are translating two Greek words, a definite article (the) and the noun in the nominative case "pistis." Reference to "the faith" usually refers to the information in which we put our trust, i.e. what we believe in. I know nothing of Greek grammar but nouns in the nominative case are used as the subject of sentences.

So far, our study has "Accordingly, the faith."

The next Greek word is the preposition "ex" (ek) which means out of and is used to refer to the source or basis of something. So "the faith" comes from or is based on something.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Once again this poster points to deeply flawed translations as if the gold standard for translation choices. Idiotic argument.
Folks you do realize this poster does not care what the word actually means, only that my view is disparaged. Go figure

One of your defects is that you don't understand the English language Van. You use words inappropriately, you misspell a lot, and you don't know the meanings of words you bandy about. You need to discover that words have synonyms.

Most translations start Romans 10:17 with the words so faith. So means thus or consequently. The meaning of the passage does not change if your pet word is not used. Among many other translations, the following start the verse with so faith : CSB, CEB, ESV, Mounce, NRSV, WEB, NCV, NASB, EHV, NLT and NKJV.

Let me cite the NIV :
"Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message, is heard through the word about Christ."

How is the meaning of the verse altered by translating as :
"So faith comes hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." (NASB)

Or:
"Faith, then, results from hearing, and hearing is through the message of Christ." (MLB)

The meaning remains the same. People read sections at a time, usually whole chapters. It's rare that someone would read a single verse with no reference to what came before or after -- the context. So, thus, consequently, therefore and accordingly the whole thrust of your post has no legitimate point. Your manner of thinking needs to be recalibrated.

 

[Yeshua1]

At any point in time, the active body of Christ is using the common translations (English in our case) of the day. We are familiar with the renderings, and if a translation differs we do not "like" it. For example, if you memorized verses in the KJV, you might not want to go with a version that differs.

Another problem is that a dismissive mantra might arise such as the HCSB is "quirky."

But, if you take courses, formal or informal, that teach Bible Study methods, you will find yourself as why this choice rather than that choice? Sometimes the answer is the versions are based on differing texts, CT, MT or TR. But even when looking at the verse same underlying text, translations present very different ideas.

For example, let us look at Romans 10:17, certainly an important text.

ESV
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

CEV
No one can have faith without hearing the message about Christ.

NKJV
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

If we consider these renderings, is faith traveling to us (comes) or is the idea faith is based on or arises from something.

Or does "the word of Christ" refer to the words spoken by Christ rather than declarations made by others about Christ?

And how do we decide what to believe concerning this verse. Some posting on this Board say go with the ones you like or the ones using the most used rendering. Of course that is advocating fallacy.

And your qualifications on being able to discern textual criticism choices and renders among various translations are?

 

[Van]

Returning to topic:

Back to Romans 10:17, should we go with "so then" (NKJV) or "so faith" ESV or "no one" (CEV)? The Greek word means consequently or accordingly, or therefore. I like "accordingly" which forces the reader to look back and ask "according to what?"

The next words in most English translations are translating two Greek words, a definite article (the) and the noun in the nominative case "pistis." Reference to "the faith" usually refers to the information in which we put our trust, i.e. what we believe in. I know nothing of Greek grammar but nouns in the nominative case are used as the subject of sentences.

So far, our study has "Accordingly, the faith."

The next Greek word is the preposition "ex" (ek) which means out of and is used to refer to the source or basis of something. So "the faith" comes from or is based on something.

Accordingly, the faith is based on heeding - moreover heeding the declarations about Christ.

 

[Van]

And your qualifications on being able to discern textual criticism choices and renders among various translations are?

Yet another Calvinist of the gang posting off topic gratuitous insults to derail discussion of bible study.

 

[Reformed1689]

Returning to topic:

Back to Romans 10:17, should we go with "so then" (NKJV) or "so faith" ESV or "no one" (CEV)? The Greek word means consequently or accordingly, or therefore. I like "accordingly" which forces the reader to look back and ask "according to what?"

The next words in most English translations are translating two Greek words, a definite article (the) and the noun in the nominative case "pistis." Reference to "the faith" usually refers to the information in which we put our trust, i.e. what we believe in. I know nothing of Greek grammar but nouns in the nominative case are used as the subject of sentences.

So far, our study has "Accordingly, the faith."

The next Greek word is the preposition "ex" (ek) which means out of and is used to refer to the source or basis of something. So "the faith" comes from or is based on something.

Accordingly, the faith is based on heeding - moreover heeding the declarations about Christ.

Faith comes by hearing, hearing comes by the Word. But again, what are you trying to discover here? What is the question you are trying to answer?

Furthermore, we don't put definitions based on what we "like" but based on what IS.

 

[Van]

Faith comes by hearing, hearing comes by the Word. But again, what are you trying to discover here? What is the question you are trying to answer?

Furthermore, we don't put definitions based on what we "like" but based on what IS.

Accordingly, the faith is based on heeding - moreover heeding the declarations about Christ.

 

[Reformed1689]

Accordingly, the faith is based on heeding - moreover heeding the declarations about Christ.

First, what do you mean by that? Second, where do you see that in Scripture?

 

[Baptist4life]

What about "word of God" or "word of Christ"?