Featured Faith and Hope

Jesus parable that shows justification by faith alone:
Luke 18:9-14

Then Jesus told this story to some who had great confidence in their own righteousness and scorned everyone else: “Two men went to the Temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a despised tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer: ‘I thank you, God, that I am not a sinner like everyone else. For I don’t cheat, I don’t sin, and I don’t commit adultery. I’m certainly not like that tax collector! I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income.’ “But the tax collector stood at a distance and dared not even lift his eyes to heaven as he prayed. Instead, he beat his chest in sorrow, saying, ‘O God, be merciful to me, for I am a sinner.’ I tell you, this sinner, not the Pharisee, returned home justified before God. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

 

That's a good explanation of James 2, in my opinion.

 

Yea, right here, straight from the scriptures, no 'explanation' required.:

"If you're referring to the works that James was talking about in his epistle:

27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. Ja 1
15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food,
16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? Ja 2

...are the same works we're all going to be judged by.

The just:

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

The unjust:

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Mt 25

Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith."

...and if you're sticking with the namby-pamby 'explanation' that James was referring to a justification before men, this justification is BEFORE CHRIST, NOT MEN.

 

I am sticking with it. I don't know much about the interpretation of Matthew 25 so I can't say much. I know some commentary writers like G. Campbell Morgan say it refers to nations being judged when Christ sets up the Kingdom. I honestly don't know. Morgan was not a Calvinist though.

If the passage is about being justified by works do you find it strange that the one's referred to as "the righteous" in verses 37,38,39 seemed to be unaware of what they had done? I do. And I think it was because as people who had been justified by faith alone as explained to you repeatedly, and as a result having a truly changed set of affections and way of life because they had been born again, they were doing those works without an attitude of "I'm doing a good thing here so I can be justified". They did those things true, but not to obtain justification. They did them because they were justified.

 

NO! It's NOT strange at all! Perfectly normal for the circumcised heart with the law written upon it (read regenerate). Take note:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts* one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

Doing good, loving your neighbor comes naturally to His children.

* I'm convinced His children are given credit for just having the 'want to' do good, for the imagination of their hearts.

 

Agreed! And I think that a regenerated person absolutely will live a new kind of life and good works, kindness to others, trying to eliminate sin in their lives, loving God and their fellow man - all these things are inevitable and essential to their salvation. And, it is right to examine your life and if you don't find these things you should question your salvation. This does not conflict with justification by faith alone, or an order of salvation that starts with regeneration and calls faith a gift. It does not mean that works play any role in your justification. The thief on the cross is just as justified as the guy who was a missionary for 40 years. What it does mean is that being justified and given new life in Christ means something - so those of us who live on for a time after being saved will for sure have a changed life. Your interest in doing good works for God is good as long as you are not thinking it will earn salvation or produce merit toward your salvation.

 

You're in conflict with scripture:

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

There is no such thing as justification by faith alone.

 

That's quite possible. I'm no expert. But I think the fact that Lutheran, Presbyterian, Calvinistic Baptist and Puritan theology all teach this to me anyway appears to be a "clue" that maybe there is something to it. Regular Baptists and fundamental Baptists and most bible churches also teach this even though many of them don't have a systematic theology. Justification by faith alone is not only disagreed with but cursed by Roman Catholics. You and I both are just laymen but that might be something to consider also. Don't be afraid to look at who is saying what and why they are saying it. I have explained the Puritan take on the necessity of a holy life and good works but I would warn you to be very careful of mixing in works to your justification. I know some really nice Catholics who do this and I hope they are saved but I really don't know how wrong you can be.

 

It's called herd mentality, but not everyone is a conformist, there's still a few Bereans around.

 

JD. Thanks for the kind words. And I probably do have a lot of theological blind spots. I hope no one on here ever takes what I say as any more than a guy posting on a "Christian Debate Forum". I like to see where other folks are coming from and I like the recommendations for books, sermons and so on.

I have not thought as much about the dispensation/end times issues for the last 15 years or so. Back in the 70's it was THE issue of course. In fact, the 1972 movie "A Thief in the Night" scared the snot out of me. I do like MacArthur and when he finally retires I don't see any replacement for him. I have been listening to him for years. I come from a Baptist and bible church background and was an honest to goodness independent fundamental Baptist for years. (I even had my own subscription to "Sword of the Lord".) So I am very familiar with the dispensational framework. I'm not against it either. I know the Reformed Baptists largely reject it but I am so weak on my understanding of Calvinist end time views and covenant theology for that matter that I try to stay out of that specific area when you guys go in that direction.

 

As opposed to rogue mentality which is where cults find their home. These folks are not Bereans because these folks reject the teaching of Paul rather than receive it and ask questions. These folks are more like rogue Pharisees.

 

That's good, but you and me are at a level where we can benefit from a framework that you get from a system. You don't have to agree with all of it but it will help you discover easy and quick answers to things which might cause you to go off track by yourself. I'm not a Presbyterian but it's easy for instance to look at the WCF as a reference when you hear someone say something that sounds strange to you. You know they are not going to be that weird.

 

I have no angst.
What does cause me angst is that the Great Awakening was a movement of God through "Calvinist" teaching and you seem unaware.
Paul expressed his joy that Christ be preached, even when those preaching were in error. What I observe and thus in angst is that the vast majority of "Christians" in the US are so terribly ignorant of what the Bible actually says. Their pastors are theological weaklings that preach a skewed picture of Christ and it leads to much falling away or to an arrogant belief that the congregants are saved by virtue of an incantation prayer that they recited as though it were magic.
This gives me angst because the people walk in ignorance.
Yet, if people will read their Bible, they will begin to question the presumptions of their ignorant pastors and begin to grasp the Sovereignty of God. The fact that so many Christians remain infants and feed their whole life on milk gives me angst. But the means by which God chose them does not give me angst at all.

 

That's true. But honestly, I have not noticed among Reformed Baptists a lack of evangelism on a personal level or of missionary support. We make our own converts as much as my old Baptist church did. We make fewer false or temporary converts for sure. Also, a lot of these people have so many kids that you could say we really do make our own converts. I don't know about Presbyterians though. As for the consistency and logic of the theology - it's true that that has never been my primary interest. I am a Calvinist because I love the Puritans and their writings, not because the theological debate has won me over. But I have noticed that when it comes to theological debate, the staunch Calvinists completely mop up the floor with the non-Calvinists, both on this forum and in the books you read. But for me, I just noticed that the serious writings about sin and salvation were almost all being done by Calvinists.

 

Primitive Baptist Article Details | Ten Reasons Why PBs are not Calvinists (primitivebaptistsermons.org)

I pretty much agree with the article except for the first note - not sure how far back their roots go, but do believe the PBs can trace back to the Old Particular Baptists before Fuller.