SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
spiritual dead can and do, as Jesus told the Jews in John 5:40
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The GOD that refuses to save
- Thread starter atpollard
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spiritual dead can and do, as Jesus told the Jews in John 5:40
Wow, that’s deep Mitch.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Martin I agree that we should take God at His word. And His word indicates that man has the ability to make real choices, has a free will. Would you not agree?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Did you not read Martins' post # 16. I copied it here for you.
Isaiah 45:22. 'Look to Me, all you ends of the earth and be saved.'
Matthew 11:28. Come to Me , all you who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.'
John 6:37. '......The one who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out.'
Revelation 22:17. 'And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take of the water of life freely.'
God has indeed made a universal call to all so that all can respond if they so choose. When you read the text it is clear that God desires that all can be saved. " all you ends of the earth" "all you who labour" "are heavy laden" "let him who thirsts" That covers everyone don't you think.
Yes indeed, I would not agree.
Matthew 11:25-27; John 3:19; John 5:40; John 6:44; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Ephesians 2:4-5 etc. all show that man is unable and unwilling to come to Christ in a saving fashion, but this is not a constitutional inability, but a moral one. Men freely refuse to come to Christ unless and until God opens their hearts to do so, when they freely come. Therefore men are responsible for their choices freely made.
Praise God who in the face of such wickedness and rebellion has given a vast crowd of hell-deserving sinners to the Son who has redeemed them at measureless cost and to the Holy Spirit who has sealed them for the day of redemption and drawn them irresistibly to faith in Christ.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Yes and Paul said NONE seek God
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Calvinists believe a general call. But that is so they are without excuse. Since none seek God, God must bring them in. If God truly desired to save all, he would.
No...never says free will.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I actually wonder about this (do unsaved NUNS love the Lord? ... we cannot assume that there are no tares in any clergy).
How then does one reconcile SERVICE with UNSAVED?
The best answer that I can come up with is "idolatry" and the warning from Romans 1. As someone that was raised by an atheist as a "submarine christian" (surfacing twice a year at Easter and Christmas as a social obligation), I can only speculate at how many people worship a god of their own creation and serve it faithfully. Yet if that god is not THE GOD, then of what profit is that service?
Is God impressed by how many gifts you left for Baal at the Asherah?
The God who made the world and everything that is in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made by hands; 25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things; 26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might feel around for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His descendants.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the descendants of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by human skill and thought. 30 So having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now proclaiming to mankind that all people everywhere are to repent, 31 because He has set a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all people by raising Him from the dead.”
Paul, on Mars Hill Acts 17.24-31
Paul, on Mars Hill Acts 17.24-31
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Respectfully, where I disagree with both you and the original poster of the comment (and anyone else that engages in the practice) is to stand up and claim "I do not believe what you believe, but I understand your wrong beliefs so well that I am going to explain to you what you REALLY believe."
Frankly, neither you nor he ... as non-Calvinists ... have the RIGHT to explain to Particular Baptists what we really believe. His false "explanations" about what CALVINISTS REALLY BELIEVE created an implied accusation against God that no 'Calvinist' ever made. I thought that it was worth examining that implied charge against God's character directly.
DOUBLE PREDESTINATION says that the charge is true (God actively prevented some from being saved).
PELAGIANISM says that God has no culpability in either man's salvation or damnation.
Few people believe either of those extremes, so it seemed worth discussing the broad middle. You should present and defend YOUR beliefs and leave people that actually CLAIM to be Calvinists to explain/defend their beliefs for themselves.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
My point is that all of the unsaved do not hate the Lord. These people who are blind spiritually, do serve the Lord in the flesh, no doubt devoted to Him
Even the so-called "good" that a religious person does is vile and filthy. The unregenerate HATE God. They are the ENEMY of God. They sit in our churches or in a mosque or temple and "worship" what they think of as "god" (or in an AA meeting a "higher power"). They are by nature the children of wrath. When they pray "Our father in heaven", they speak unwittingly of Satan.
Folks, WE need to see people can be religious but still in need of the Gospel. There are NONE righteous, doing or thinking a single "good" thing. NONE seek God. NONE going to heaven. NONE facing anything other than eternal hell. Unless GOD intervenes, every single human deserves punishment.
To US it may seem an unsaved person is nice, good, religious, singing hymns, worshiping. But don't let HUMAN JUDGMENT cloud your brain. 100% HATE GOD, reject salvation, and going to hell.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I agree that all of our so called "goodness" is as filthy rags before the Lord. There is not one person who is morally good. Nor do we seek the Lord on our own.
But we cannot say that those who are unsaved are haters of God.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
So you trust what Paul says in one verse then your next post your disagree with him but you also disagree with God. So good to know that you calvinists have such special insight.
1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
YOU are 100% wrong, and defiant of God's Word on that matter. I have never met a brother who did not believe the unregenerate man is the inveterate enemy of God, hating all that is righteous, and needs a total change in very nature only by the holy Spirit of God. Your thinking links to liberalism/modernism that says man is not "dead" but just sick, not "totally evil" but just blind.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
Matthew 7:11
Jesus is clearly speaking about the wicked lost, but says that they do good? And says your Father?
Paul disagrees Romans 8:7
Romans 8:7
IF They really loved the true Lord, would be saved!
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