Featured Calvinism is Internally Inconsistent

Set aside the labels for a moment, tell me if you agree with this confessional statement
Chapter 1: Of the Holy Scriptures 1._____ The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience, although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God and his will which is necessary unto salvation. Therefore it pleased the Lord at sundry times and in divers manners to reveal himself, and to declare that his will unto his church; and afterward for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan, and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which maketh the Holy Scriptures to be most necessary, those former ways of God's revealing his will unto his people being now ceased. ( 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Isaiah 8:20; Luke 16:29, 31; Ephesians 2:20; Romans 1:19-21; Romans 2:14,15; Psalms 19:1- 3; Hebrews 1:1; Proverbs 22:19-21; Romans 15:4; 2 Peter 1:19,20 )


2._____Under the name of Holy Scripture, or the Word of God written, are now contained all the books of the Old and New Testaments, which are these: OF THE OLD TESTAMENT: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, I Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, The Song of Solomen, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations,Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi OF THE NEW TESTAMENT: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, The Acts of the Apostles, Paul's Epistle to the Romans, I Corinthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians, II Thessalonians, I Timothy, II Timothy, To Titus, To Philemon, The Epistle to the Hebrews, Epistle of James, The first and second Epistles of Peter, The first, second, and third Epistles of John, The Epistle of Jude, The Revelation All of which are given by the inspiration of God, to be the rule of faith and life. ( 2 Timothy 3:16)

3._____ The books commonly called Apocrypha, not being of divine inspiration, are no part of the canon or rule of the Scripture, and, therefore, are of no authority to the church of God, nor to be any otherwise approved or made use of than other human writings. ( Luke 24:27, 44; Romans 3:2 )

4._____ The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, dependeth not upon the testimony of any man or church, but wholly upon God (who is truth itself), the author thereof; therefore it is to be received because it is the Word of God. ( 2 Peter 1:19-21; 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 John 5:9 )

5._____We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the church of God to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scriptures; and the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, and the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole (which is to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, and many other incomparable excellencies, and entire perfections thereof, are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God; yet notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth, and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit bearing witness by and with the Word in our hearts. ( John 16:13,14; 1 Corinthians 2:10-12; 1 John 2:20, 27)

6._____The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down or necessarily contained in the Holy Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelation of the Spirit, or traditions of men. Nevertheless, we acknowledge the inward illumination of the Spirit of God to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the Word, and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed. ( 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Galatians 1:8,9; John 6:45; 1 Corinthians 2:9-12; 1 Corinthians 11:13, 14; 1 Corinthians 14:26,40)


7._____All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all; yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed and observed for salvation, are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of ordinary means, may attain to a sufficient understanding of them. ( 2 Peter 3:16; Psalms 19:7; Psalms 119:130)


8._____The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which at the time of the writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and by his singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentic; so as in all controversies of religion, the church is finally to appeal to them. But because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have a right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded in the fear of God to read and search them, therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come, that the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship him in an acceptable manner, and through patience and comfort of the Scriptures may have hope. ( Romans 3:2; Isaiah 8:20; Acts 15:15; John 5:39; 1 Corinthians 14:6, 9, 11, 12, 24, 28; Colossians 3:16 )

9._____The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself; and therefore when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched by other places that speak more clearly. ( 2 Peter 1:20, 21; Acts 15:15, 16)

10.____The supreme judge, by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Scripture delivered by the Spirit, into which Scripture so delivered, our faith is finally resolved. ( Matthew 22:29, 31, 32; Ephesians 2:20; Acts 28:23)

Which thing did they get wrong SH? What would you say differently?[/QUOTE]

Well when you read from your view point that is fine but as I do not hold to yours I really do not take the time to critique your texts. But I will look at ti and get back to you.

 

Already told you I will get back to you when I have time to read through the post. If that does not work for you, well that is the way it is.

 

I don't think @SavedByGrace even understands the meaning of his own moniker. He just likes to run his mouth and bash those that do understand grace.

 

If this what you are claiming for yourself then that is on you.
So they have no excuse for not knowing God. Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools.
But do not be so presumptuous as to claim that for those that disagree with you. Who made you the arbiter of truth and understanding.

The fact your take a text out of it context to try and prove a point just proves that you really do not know what you are talking about and are just blowing hot air.

 

It's not just the "Calvinists" who say that, it is God Himself who says that He hardens people:

" But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 that the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him." ( John 12:37-41 ).

" What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth." ( Romans 9:14-18 ).

Perhaps you'll find the answer in your studies, Guido.
That He does it and that His word says it, is enough for me.

 

I have to agree with this, but it is not just Iconoclast that does this is it. When we present clear scripture they just brush it aside and claim we do not understand the finer points.

 

According to Scripture, it is the unbeliever.

Yes.

By being good to them even in their rebellious and willfully God-hating condition, and by patiently waiting for the fruit of His work...
His children out of every tongue, tribe and nation.

 

Notice it is for those that constantly reject Him that He hardens, but under calvinism the only way someone can reject Him is if God makes them reject Him. So we have God hardening the hearts of those that He made reject Him. Kind of circular don't you think.

 

Because He does not draw all of mankind, each and every human being, to Himself.

 

God hardens the hearts of those who willfully ( Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18, John 3:19-20 ) reject Him...
except for His elect, who He draws lovingly.

Not at all.

That the Lord hardens men's hearts and minds is completely Scriptural, and that He softens men's hearts and opens their minds is again, completely Scriptural.
Whether or not you believe it to be "circular reasoning", the Bible still says it, my friend.

You do believe the word of God, do you not?

 

But the question is, why is He hardening their hearts so that they will reject Him when the bible tells that He desires all to be saved. 1Ti 2:3-4

Also if they have a free will to reject Him why do they not have the same free will to accept Him? Free will is free will wouldn't you say.

 

He doesn't desire to save each and every person...
My conclusion is, that is how you understand that passage for yourself.

I understand the "all men" there to be the same as Revelation 5:9, Revelation 7:9 and Hebrews 2 ( "every man" ) describes...
His people out of every tongue, tribe and nation.

Because our "free will" isn't free...
It's darkened and enslaved by our love of sin and hatred of God for commanding us to repent of it.

As in other threads, please see Romans 1:18-32.

God says it isn't.

 

Scripture would disagree with you on that.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

Joh 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."

Do you not think that God {Christ Jesus} would know what He was saying? You have to read your own theological view into the text to deny that God wants all to come to salvation.
He even says so
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God our Savior {Christ Jesus}. How many times must we be told this before it is believed?

 

Where do you think I get my answers?
Certainly not John Calvin or Augustine of Hippo, nor anyone who follows them.

I understand what my Saviour is saying, Silverhair...
Unreservedly and with full knowledge and belief of His every word.

I'm not a "Calvinist" nor am I "Reformed", Silverhair...
I read and understand His words for myself with no help from men, and I always have.

I speak what I read and understand from His words, and only His words;
I do not bring man's understanding to the table ( Proverbs 3:4-7 ), nor do I rely on "bible colleges" to get it.

May God bless you in your studies, my friend, and I wish you well, as always.

 

JonC,

Hello JonC,

There is no double speak at all.

Yes, I agree with the confessional statement

13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Scripture is not only read, but it is taught by God given teachers. Pastors and deacons are to be apt to teach.
You ignore this fact.

7 Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites,
caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place.

8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly,

and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

This is the biblical teaching JONC....
It does not say...just listen to JonC give his fragmented ideas and partial verses without any understanding.

JonC continues to attack; 6 failed attempts-

no, not at all

no...looking up words is a key to understand what is written

no, not at all

no need to do that at all

do not go to philosophy, just scripture. JonC makes this claim because several of us pointed out this is what he does, he did not like that we pointed it out, sohe thinks if he says we do it, no one will notice this is his M>O>

The bible does teach doctrine when the verses are properly understood. If you want to see what it looks like when not properly understood, read JonC, or Vans post.

no philosophy except biblical based philosophy

I never have ignored scripture. I have been shut down a few times by Biblicist, a couple of times by TC.. once or twice by JOJ. and a few other random critics. I welcome biblical correction. I do not welcome foul dishonest attacks. They are unacceptable.
You have never shut me down, you have never shut down any link I offer because you cannot come close to it.

 

Ok..i missed that post, but by all means take your time SILVERHAIR. I think we will find you agree on 90% of what is offered. JUST read through. if you find a sentence you do not agree with, just extract that sentence and lets go over it. IF you agree, just say...agree