Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
No, I call your view humanistic, not the Bible, Big difference.
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Since I am the one that defends the bible and your the one that defends calvinism the burden of proof is always on you and yours. Calvinism is a theological opinion of how to understand the bible. You have shown that by coming up with the LBCF/WCF and TULIP. You say they are true but the bible shows that they contain errors. So the burden is on you not me.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
My view is from the bible yours is from calvinism. Since calvinism is a man made philosophy which do you think is humanistic? Hint it is not the bible.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
First of all, I do not "defend calvinism" I defend the Scriptures. I don't think I have ever invoked the LBCF or the WCF and TULIP only to clarify for you what we are talking about. Personally, I do not even use TULIP, you realize that right? The Bible does not show me to be in error, you are making that claim. YOU make the claim that my view makes God unjust yet you refuse to provide proof. Why? Because you can't. So while this was a nice try at deflection, it isn't going to fly.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Your view is not from the Bible, just saying.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
For someone that says they do not defend calvinism you sure go to great lengths to do so. When you deny clear scripture that presents a problem. If you hold to calvinism and yet deny you use TULIP or LBCF/WCF then I have question if you even understand what you are defending.
Under Calvinism
God unconditionally chooses to only save some, but not all,
God limits the atonement of Christs’ death to that select few and
God gives irresistible grace to those that are the fortunate elect.
If you do not meet any of these conditions then you are doomed from the start.
That is calvinism, that is tulip, that is what you have and do defend is it not?
Tell us how people, dead in their sins, have faith before God graciously saves. You certainly cannot get it from Romans 3, which tells us no one seeks God, not even one.
Ephesians 2:1,4-5,8-9
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Silverhair, one of the incredibly foolish things you do is to imagine my belief isn't grounded entirely in the Bible. You tell yourself this lie that "calvinism" is found in some other book outside the Bible, when in fact the Bible fully informs Calvin by simple observation of the biblical text.
So, read Romans 3...again...and note that nowhere is faith shown to be found in the unsaved person.
Romans 3:9-31
What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Like I said, I'm defending Scripture.
What I note is that I share scripture and you immediately call it TULIP or Calvinism. I share more scripture, which you ignore, and you fall on your mythical calvinism. You fail understand that I am sharing God's word with you and never once bring in a 16th Century person to this discussion. It is always God's word. I share God's word. I point out what God actually says. You, then, take what God says and you twist it so as to make it say something else...something that you WANT it to say so that you become more important than God.
There is two straight pages of you promoting yourself while ignoring scripture after scripture and trying to stuff it all into your fictional calvin box. You may be the most dishonest poster here at the BB in that you will not acknowledge your opponent is actually sharing God's word with you.
Silverhair, deal with the fact that God's word opposes your ideas.
LOL, Silverhairism 101.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Exactly, I do not think @Silverhair @Van or @SavedByGrace have ever actually argued against Calvinism, they think they have, but pretty much they have been putting forth nothing but one massive strawman theology that has vague echos of Calvinism to you read what they are arguing Calvinism says, then you realize you have no idea what they are actually arguing against because it doesn't exist.
Of course we share scripture. Silverhair just can't stand any scripture that reveals his theology to be false so he falls on his boogeyman.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
The question that you fail to answer is why would God make spiritually dead sinners alive. Hint faith in His son. It is right there in the text that you quoted, "by grace you have been saved through faith" Notice the person is saved because of their faith not so that they will have faith as you and other calvinists like to say.
Have you never read Joh 16:8-9. What do you think the Holy Spirit is doing, what do you think the gospel message is for? As I have said before you will defend calvinism but not Gods' character, amazing.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
It seems that you only defend scripture as your calvinism teaches you to do. So you are defending calvinism not scripture, when you are shown clear scripture you deny the truth in it and still turn to your calvinism.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Under Calvinism
God unconditionally chooses to only save some, but not all,
God limits the atonement of Christs’ death to that select few and
God gives irresistible grace to those that are the fortunate elect.
If you do not meet any of these conditions then you are doomed from the start.
God is love 1Jn 4:8 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1Ti 2:4 so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Rom 3:26
Austin if you claim to be a calvinist then you hold to the TULIP or you do not understand the theology you hold to. TULIP disagrees with the bible and you say it is biblical.
Funny how when I point out scripture you just ignore it. I comment on your scripture posts and show you the errors and you just disagree, why because it does not agree with your calvinism.
Calvinism has to agree with the bible not the bible with calvinism as it seems you think.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You only wish that what we have pointed out to you as the errors in calvinism were not true. When you deny what we quote from calvinist texts and say it does not mean what it says then who does not understand calvinism.
The only strawman arguments that I see on here are the ones trying to defend the calvinist theology. But keep living in your fantasy world.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I have dealt with your scripture but the same can not be said for you.
First, you don't defend the Bible. You argue for the Silverharian interpretation of the Bible...which,frankly, no one else is doing.
I defended my interpretation of the Bible, showing detailed information in the Bible for why I believe what I believe.
You, not wanting to address scripture and honestly interpret scripture, resort to a strawman of your own making.
Silverharianism is a sham doctrine and you do not like being called out for your sham interpretations.
Your statement is outright false, proven false by merely looking at the myriad number of threads where I go through scripture after scripture proving your interpretation to be incorrect.
Your response is almost always against a strawman calvin that you have made up.
Let the readers of this thread recognize your modus operandi.
According to scripture:
John 10:25-29
Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
Romans 8:28-39
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, “For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.” No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Ephesians 1:3-14
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
1 Peter 1:20-21
He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
As for the sentences in the Bible that you point to...I have gone through each one, showing in context why you have misinterpreted those sentences. Why do you keep regurgitating the verses when those verses prove you wrong?
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